Gap between MNK and DRG dps widening

[Mardel]

And why not? Who woke up one day and said "Monk should be the highest DPS, period"?

I will never understand this idea that certain jobs should get some privilege and be selected over other jobs when building a party. It was terrible in XI, and it's terrible here too. All jobs should bring comparable DPS and and abilities to the table or the design has failed. We should never, EVER, say "no one should ever have the sustained dps a monk does because, because REASONS".

I agree with this philosophy. I mean it is not that big of a deal to me because I am capable of playing all the dps classes well, but I do think something should be looked at. I was talking to it with my friend who also plays monk and what he essentially said was this:

MNK will outshine DRG so long as a monk can keep up GL3 or get it back quickly. We also both agreed manipulating the disembowel to be a stronger debuff would make people stack double bard. If you make the dots stronger or longer that could potentially cause an issue. However, changing spineshatter CD to be close to the same timing as normal Jump could work. Considering if we need a gap closer (t9) we have to save it on purpose where a monk can Shoulder Tackle back to darnus, yes drg does have elusive jump but the CD on that is quite long plus you have to make sure you are turned around and angled correctly. Granted both jobs have issues in that fight depending where you stand for fire/lightning and orientations. (off topic)

The thing is this would allow for another weave-able ability which wouldn't be game breaking. Personally I don't what they could do atm to "balance" the jobs on drg w/o completely remaking a skill or two. However, I would not rule out complete overhauls on some jobs in the near future given they already had to with warrior. (which I think should have gotten drg support and not monk - really SE... the other 2 handed dps class that would "relate" to warrior and it doesn't pull from that >_>) Also don't forget with new jobs on the horizon each job could change what they get their support skills from.

[ShinigamiZero]

And why not? Who woke up one day and said "Monk should be the highest DPS, period"?

I will never understand this idea that certain jobs should get some privilege and be selected over other jobs when building a party. It was terrible in XI, and it's terrible here too. All jobs should bring comparable DPS and and abilities to the table or the design has failed. We should never, EVER, say "no one should ever have the sustained dps a monk does because, because REASONS".

Going by that logic; Why shouldn't all classes be just as good in AoEing like a blackmage?, or utility like bard? Everyone has its uses and situations where they shine the best. Bring a monk to a fight with bosses that jump away or make you move. You'll lose greased lightning and your dps will go down. While a dragoon will still do fine. You have to give up something to gain something. Also dragoon is more tanky right?

[Mardel]

Going by that logic; Why shouldn't all classes be just as good in AoEing like a blackmage?, or utility like bard? Everyone has its uses and situations where they shine the best. Bring a monk to a fight with bosses that jump away or make you move. You'll lose greased lightning and your dps will go down. While a dragoon will still do fine. You have to give up something to gain something. Also dragoon is more tanky right?

Actually if you have to move on monk... you just shoulder tackle back to it XD cause of the 30second timer. If a drg is doing rotations properly he won't have a gap closer outside, the very long cd, elusive jump. Also, if the target jumps away and is immune to dots while away the drg loses out on their biggest dot damage. So it isn't like drg just can come back and do amazing burst on it. If that was the case, drg would be closer in numbers to monk than it is in t8, but it isn't. The amount of "burst" drg can do does not make up for it's inability to keep up with monk's "sustained damage" yet it suffers similar consequences that monks do when targets jump or force the melee to dodge.

"Dragoons are more tanks" also incorrect, dragoon is not more "tanky" most big damage in this game is magic dmg, and even disciples of hand have more magic defense than a drg. Example: mega flare, 6k hp I still take far more damage than the monk on my team. The only benefit drg has is that it can parry a dive... if you are lucky :x

TLDR: they both suffer similar consequences but in a ideal t8 scenario drg is the college football player and mnk is a nfl superbowl champ.

[ShinigamiZero]

Actually if you have to move on monk... you just shoulder tackle back to it XD cause of the 30second timer. If drg is doing rotations properly he won't have a gap closer outside the very long elusive jump at the time. Also, if the target jumps away and is immune to dots while away the drg loses out on their biggest dot damage. So it isn't like drg just magically can come back and be all super burst on it. It suffers to a similar extent as the monk.

Shoulder tackle does not help on bosses that jump away and are untargetable for some time.

[Mardel]

Shoulder tackle does not help on bosses that jump away and are untargetable for some time.

Well neither does spine shatter dive or dragon fire dive. I think this is what we call similar XD, sure you can say "elusive jump" but like I mentioned above the CD does not make a reliable tool in instances. It's like telling a monk hey you can just use PB when you lose your GL3 right?

[ShinigamiZero]

Well neither does spine shatter dive or dragon fire dive. I think this is what we call similar XD, sure you can say "elusive jump" but like I mentioned above the CD does not make a reliable tool in instances. It's like telling a monk hey you can just use PB when you lose your GL3 right?

You can't always pop PB cause its a long cooldown. You're missing the point regardless. There are lots of fights that are unfavorable to monk and favorable more to dragoon and vise-versa. That's the point I'm trying to make. Some classes excell at AoE, some excell at sustained fights, some excell more at burst. You can't have it all in one class.

[Mardel]

You can't always pop PB cause its a long cooldown. You're missing the point regardless. There are lots of fights that are unfavorable to monk and favorable more to dragoon and vise-versa. That's the point I'm trying to make. Some classes excell at AoE, some excell at sustained fights, some excell more at burst. You can't have it all in one class.

You know, I was being sarcastic because both elusive jump and perfect balance are both on long CD... right?

[abzoluut]

Meanwhile, future Ninja's are laughing since they will be top single target dps.

On a more serious note. If we'd take 2nd Coil, I think the 4 turns are close for equally geared MNK vs DRG. We don't need one DPS to top, we need DPS who shine at certain fights. Balancing things out is good. I rather see buffs for dragoons than nerfs for MNK though.

I always find it interesting that people vote for nerfs when they can have a MNK in their group...

[whiskeybravo]

TL/DR

DRGs have better burst and better AoE, and less complicated positionals. Monk has higher single target damage. Happy? Never..

Side Note: Dat Chakra's OP

[Orophin]

I honestly can't respond to threads like this because everyone's parsers report different damage and are setup differently, so there will never be an accurate number on what someone *should* be doing.

I don't think there's more than a 5% DPS difference between MNK and DRG if they are both geared equivalently and played to their best potential.