Do you guys think SE will ever change the way Coils lockout works?

[Ryel]

The dev team cares.

This is a poor point to make regarding this issue

While that may be his current opinion, the question is if the development team cares more about the risk of people selling gear than they do the retention of players to begin with.

More and more players are leaving / taking extended breaks from the game over this, if 1.0 has shown anything it is that the Developers aren't always correct about everything and some design choices can be more costly than others.

Yoshida has been willing to admit he's been wrong before, his comments on the future of class/job design has shown this, which is why players should continue to make the appeal that they do not like this sort of lockout design on content as it only hurts the player base in both the short and long term.

[ispano]

This is a poor point to make regarding this issue

While that may be his current opinion, the question is if the development team cares more about the risk of people selling gear than they do the retention of players to begin with.

More and more players are leaving / taking extended breaks from the game over this, if 1.0 has shown anything it is that the Dev aren't always correct about everything and some design choices can be more costly than others.

Yoshida has been willing to admit he's been wrong before, his comments on the future of class/job design has shown this which is why players should continue to make the appeal that they do not like this sort of lockout design on content as it only hurts the player base in both the short and long term.

Please, tell me how they aren't correct when this system works just fine for end game encounters in pretty much every MMO there is? Please, tell me.

[Ryel]

Please, tell me how they aren't correct when this system works just fine for end game encounters in pretty much every MMO there is? Please, tell me.

For starters it doesn't, to the effect that even WoW which is probably the game most associated with this model has changed it.

In addition most games where this sort of system was created they were tied with a 1/1 lockout to character mechanic you played 1 class on 1 character so those games encouraged you to make more than one in order to "beat" the lockout.

The armory system that this game uses as it's base design completely goes against this concept alone. One of the major selling points and promoted game mechanics is the ability to play multiple classes/jobs on one character, effectively removing the need for Alts that so many MMOs before needed.

Other games have shown that there are alternatives to needing a lockout system like this, one of them was this same companies previous MMO and most successful investment prior to this one, please don't try to act like there is only one solution to this, it has been proven for years that is not the case.

[zPanda]

I think that what people should really be asking for if they just want to help people learn to do it is not a change to the lockouts but a practice mode that's exactly the same fight, has no lockout and drops no loot.



You can also have people join groups without saying they've cleared, and preventing everyone else from getting loot.

wouldn't be a problem - before entry just have a pop up window saying someone in the party has already cleared it and ask for a confirmation to enter - simple enuff.

[ispano]

For starters it doesn't, to the effect that even WoW which is probably the game most associated with this model has changed it.

In addition most games where this sort of system was created they were tied with a 1/1 lockout to character mechanic you played 1 class on 1 character so those games encouraged you to make more than one in order to "beat" the lockout.

The armory system that this game uses as it's base design completely goes against this concept alone. One of the major selling points and promoted game mechanics is the ability to play multiple classes/jobs on one character, effectively removing the need for Alts that so many MMOs before needed.

Other games have shown that there are alternatives to needing a lockout system like this, one of them was this same companies previous MMO and most successful investment prior to this one, please don't try to act like there is only one solution to this it has been proven for years that is not the case.

Except WoW has not changed it for end game. The top end raids still have a standard lockout. They've tweaked it slightly, but it still boils down to "killed this boss this week, can't fight it again til next week" So let's throw WoW and XI out the window and look at other MMOs? Not everything has to benefit the player, in some cases it's bad. When game devs create "hard"(subjective of course) end game content, it's designed to limit who can finish it to a certain skill level. Selling runs will always happen, but if you make it EASIER to sell, it skews that number. And I can bet most players will say something like "who cares?" and when someone responds that the devs do, it all of a sudden doesn't matter what the devs think at all.

[Ryel]

Except WoW has not changed it for end game. The top end raids still have a standard lockout. They've tweaked it slightly, but it still boils down to "killed this boss this week, can't fight it again til next week" So let's throw WoW and XI out the window and look at other MMOs? Not everything has to benefit the player, in some cases it's bad. When game devs create "hard"(subjective of course) end game content, it's designed to limit who can finish it to a certain skill level. Selling runs will always happen, but if you make it EASIER to sell, it skews that number. And I can bet most players will say something like "who cares?" and when someone responds that the devs do, it all of a sudden doesn't matter what the devs think at all.

Because once again 1.0 was a harsh lesson showing the mentality that the Devs know better than the community does can backfire, especially when the community is constantly bringing complaints to their attention (Fatigue system anyone?)

While the Devs are the ones making the game the players are the ones paying for and playing it, or not as is increasingly becoming the case for some players.

I hate to say it but you can't count WoW or XI out of this as much as many players would like to, the current game is heavily inspired by the themes and mechanics WoW has laid forward, not to mention XI has given SE over 10 years of MMO development experience there's a reason people played for so long.

The point is there are more than two choices here, it isn't just "This needs a lockout" or "Remove the lockout with no alternative conditions"

I see numerous posters on this forum repeatedly touting that this is a "new game" any time a comparison to the things that worked in 1.23 but are no longer in the game or direct comparisons to WoW or FFXI are brought up (not saying you specifically but both XI and 1.23 did work without lockouts) yet constantly using "Well other MMOs do it this way" in regards to other mechanics.

It doesn't work both ways on this, sorry.

I threw a post up on page 3 that has a list of 20+ threads some of which go hundreds of posts deep into this issue and many of the points cover this better than i can.

[Brainberry]

The dev team cares.

Makes me like him even more.

Were in good hands.