Future of the armory system

[Giantbane]

I will be very disappointed if the class/multiple job system is scrapped and replaced by a single class -> job or just single job system.

IT'S BORING!

SMN and SCH currently work great, the ONLY real downside being that they (currently) do not share their allocated stats (although stat choice is by and large pretty stupid right now as there is usually just one "correct" place to put your stats, but that's another matter). You level up one class and you have access to two jobs that are similar, but unique in their own way.

And it also means you get fewer jobs as a result. A second job only means a few job quests, a few modified skills on the base class to better fit the role (like removing threat modifiers on attack abilities), 5 extra abilities and new job specific weapons.

Full classes require more work (as has been stated by Yoshida), in that you need a class guild, many additional quests, and a full suite of abilities and traits. And then you need all the other stuff a job requires too.

Part of what makes a lot of the Job based FF's (and bravely default) great is the large number of jobs you have to choose from. I feel like moving to a 1 class-> 1 job would limit the number of total jobs that could be added because each one requires more work.

However, I do think the current model leaves room for improvement. It would make more sense if base classes had a more general stat allocation, and the jobs were much more specialized. For instance a MRD might have a more balanced allocation between STR, VIT and casting stats. Enough MND to be able to cast a Cure that wasn't worthless or enough MP to cast Raise on a random player when you run past them. However, a WAR would be very heavy on the VIT, a little less STR and very light on the casting stats. A DPS Job based on WAR would be heavier on the STR, while giving up some VIT and go light on the casting stats.

[Giantbane]

I like the idea of classes branching into two (or more) jobs and I think they should stick too it.

What it will require, maybe, is a bit of reworking of the basic classes in order to support two roles. I don't think it would be excruciatingly hard to fiddle with Gladiator a bit so that with the Job Stone it can be a DPS class. Insert abilities and change up some traits.

I think it would be good if there was better focus for the Job's intended role. For PLD, the base class (GLD) has too many defensive cooldowns for a DPS class to use. And 2/5 abilities added by the job stone are DPS abilities that have nothing to do with tanking. If Sword Oath and Spirit's Within were GLD abilities and a couple of the defensive abilities were moved to PLD (Sentinel and Bulwark, for instance), it would be easier to adapt the GLD moveset to a DPS job.

[Giantbane]

You haven't played very many MMO's have you? You have no idea the creativity players come up with when it comes to class builds that developers never intended or saw even being a thing. It's the very reason WoW completely locked out their skill tree's until you reached the capstone prior to completely removing them for their current system. Its why swtor needs to do the same thing but refuses so they have to keep rebalancing to stop broken hybrid builds while keeping full tree's viable...that is back and forth balancing nightmare that shouldnt even be a thing.

FFXIV is as balanced as it is because jobs play a specific roll with limitations to cross class abilities. Anymore "freedom" to that system would break the game.

FFXIV also requires less balance than other games do. In any other MMO, your character is one class and one class only. If they are not as competitive as another class in a particular area, then your entire character is less effective. This is much less of an issue with FFXIV because a character can be any class.

You obviously don't want MAJOR balance issues between jobs (see WAR vs. PLD when coil 1 was released). But the flexibility to change jobs at will lets the player overcome balance issues when necessary.

[Amused]

If they removed classes, or made it jobs only, what happens to the guilds and their quest lines?

It seems like that would be a very difficult issue to address.

[Ransu]

If they removed classes, or made it jobs only, what happens to the guilds and their quest lines?

It seems like that would be a very difficult issue to address.

Eh, the line is so blurred on those stories that I can't really see it being a major issue that can't be easily manipulated with the current content.

[Radacci]

You dont level up your job, you level up your class.
You take up a lance, go to Lancer guild, start learning how to use a lance.
When you become good enough, you end up with a job stone, that teaches you DRG skills.
DRG doesn't replace LNC, because LNC is your skill with the spear.
Any job that uses spear, will use the skills you learned as a Lancer, with Job skills as a bonus.
If you tried the DRG challenges without LNC skills, you'd fail; they are the basics to even be able to become a DRG.
When they release a new Lance-Job, it's not that job that is lv 50+, it's LNC that is 50+ and you use LNC skills, to grow into your new job.
As lv cap goes up, we might end up dropping some LNC skills, in favour of new job skills, but the LNC class/skills are still the basics you had to learn, to even get to where you are.
If they removed the class system, then you'd need to lv a new lance-job, from lv1...why would you suddenly not know how to use a lance?
Leveling up in this game, is a joke anyway, and i wouldn't want to lv up from 1, just cause they add a new Lance-Job...when i already got a capped Lance-Job...that knows how to use a lance.
It's not like it would *extend the longevity of the expansion* just cause you need to spend a day to lv up 1-50...
The problem is that the classes weren't originally created with multiple jobs in mind. So their available skills would in some cases make a new job, waaaay to OP. Like branching a DD from GLD.

[TeganLaron]

I just don't see how having a 2nd job from a class would work at the moment. Most people would instantly be level 50 without even trying it, so would then be left just doing menial quests to get their job skills. I think the starting from scratch thing that they're doing with NIN is better.

[Giantbane]

I just don't see how having a 2nd job from a class would work at the moment. Most people would instantly be level 50 without even trying it, so would then be left just doing menial quests to get their job skills. I think the starting from scratch thing that they're doing with NIN is better.

2nd jobs aren't complete separate classes, they're just specializations as you'd see in other MMOs. For instance, WoW you have a paladin and could spec into protection (tank), holy (heal) or retribution (dps). In FF you have Arcanist which can specialize as a Scholar (heals), or a Summoner (DPS). If they were to add Geomancer as a 2nd Job to CNJ, then they're just adding a DPS specialization to that base class. It's not a full blown class, but it also (should) take a lot fewer development resources to add to the game.

[ruinedmirage]

2nd jobs aren't complete separate classes, they're just specializations as you'd see in other MMOs. For instance, WoW you have a paladin and could spec into protection (tank), holy (heal) or retribution (dps). In FF you have Arcanist which can specialize as a Scholar (heals), or a Summoner (DPS). If they were to add Geomancer as a 2nd Job to CNJ, then they're just adding a DPS specialization to that base class. It's not a full blown class, but it also (should) take a lot fewer development resources to add to the game.

But it brings in the aspect of knowing how to play your class well. It implies that tank jobs will only ever stem from tank classes. Sure, a DPS is easy to fudge with until you get in right, but take this for example. I play CNJ/WHM in combat, never tanked before and don't know much about it besides don't use your LB. Hypothetically, if a tank job were to stem from CNJ (hypothetically), I'm already level 50 and can ....... attempt to play it.

Granted, this leaves a lot of responsibility to the players to become proficient in their roles, but leaving things up to the players is what the modern model of MMOs is trying to get away from.

People not playing rotations correctly or only tanking as a kiss-ass reason to get commendations (while not playing to the best of its ability) is a common and legitimate complaint here.

[Deusteele]

Going to echo some poster's above. Classes are too well fleshed-out while Jobs are too bare-boned. They really should have ended Class skill progression at the very latest, level 30. An argument could have been made to drop Class skill's at level 10, giving them a basic a combo starter and a cooldown or 2. Then moving on to a Job stone that gains experience mutually with a class.

A version of this was in place at the start but, it was a global level and caused problems. This would have the same effect we have know, but would prevent players from automatically having Job maxed when they are released under the current system. Instead they would have to acquire the Job stone and proceed to level as that Job, while having a slighter better time due having already level the class.

A separate, but related issue is the playerbase desire for Job's. While having a plethora of Jobs sound interesting, many of the single-player game Job's are based more around gamebreaker ultimate skills that often are better off used by another Job due to the native Job being innately weaker.
i.e. Red Mage, often cited due to Dual Cast's power the Job itself falls short due to being a weaker Melee or Caster then alternatives. In FFXI they made a solid generalist that worked especially well for soloing but in group play, where specialists are preferred, it was forced into a buff-bot role supporting dedicated Jobs.

Another issues is a division of abilities in general to create job bloat that creates a Job by ripping apart an skill list and creating a Job focused around a single school that could be better off rolled back into Black or White schools. i.e. Time or Green mages that were solely created by removing Slow/Haste and Protect-Shell/Debuffs from White/Black respectively.