Future of the armory system

[kiraan]

Hey there,

In the bluegatr interview which can be seen here, there is an intersting point about the future of the armory system
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/122...edia-Interview


Last year when Scholar was introduced at E3, it was mentioned that it would branch off from the same class as Summoner, and this would be a mechanic that would be used more, but it has yet to happen for any other class. You haven’t announced anything yet, but are there any other plans to introduce anything like this? For example, another swordsman besides Paladin?

Well, we need to look into this and whether we want to keep that plan, it’s something we have to consider as we add new jobs and classes. One of the more difficult things with the system is that when a job is derived from a class, it's tied to the class's actions. Also, when we make multiple jobs from one class, the weakness with having multiple jobs branch out of one class without being able to freely switch stats around is exposed. This wasn’t a problem initially because both of those jobs were simultaneously added and it was planned from the start, but now we have to carefully think about this. One thing we could consider, for example, is a hybrid job derived from more than one class, but it may change depending on what we want to add. The number of jobs will increase even further with 3.0 (the expansion pack), and at that point we might decide on an entirely new mechanism, so please hang on for further details.

Do you think the current armory system is limiting some interesting design choice for future jobs? What kind of improvement would you like to see?

[abzoluut]

I hope they "decide on an entirely new mechanism". The one we have now seems to hold back the potential jobs we can have.

I'd like to see the classes being removed. That's a leftover from 1.0.

Just make jobs and make abilities available for other jobs to still have the cross class thing going on.

I don't see the point in having classes right now when it's too difficult to derrive a 2nd job out of them. I also don't understand why it's so difficult to come up with a solution for the attributes problem like smn/sch have now.

So yes, switch it up SE!

[Sove92]

Can already see the huge issue with making a DPS branch out of a tank class, the class abilities would generate ridiculous hate on DPS hands. Have job crystal remove the hate modifier and you need to come up with an explanation.

[KyrsIsley]

One problem that they also did not take into account is by tying new jobs to existing classes, those jobs will start out (in 3.0) at lv50 already for a lot of people. This shortens the lifespan of their expansion significantly even with the level cap raised, which is counter intuitive to the purpose of an expansion pack which is to add longevity to the game. I understand that classes are meant to be flexible but I rarely see any classes being used extensively outside of Marauders in PVP or Marauders being used as offtank/dps in some endgame encounters.

[ruinedmirage]

I kind of like the class-to-job system if it were to have one class = one job, though there are pros and cons.

The good part is that you don't feel completely unmotivated and it doesn't get completely stale mid-way through the level grind. There's a definite sense of progression when you hit level 30 and know that (with the sub class req) you are able to SEE and DEFINE a progression of your character. THM improves to become BLM, etc. If FF1 didn't have that progression, I would felt a little more lackluster about continuing the game. But it shows that more power brings greater reward (job skills) and I was excited to see what awaited me next. I like the throwback to that progressive feeling.

The con is that there's not much variation in the way every plays their class, and it even comes with high expectancy should someone else have any experience in that job. If you're not playing teh same as everyone else at the highest level it's obvious and frowned upon. There's no leniency for playstyle or builds; only one way to play.

Personally, I think that conversion from class to job is needed to keep attention on progression halfway through, and that it should be looked at the same way as FF1. Once you became a warrior of light, nobody dreamed of going back to play Black Mage after you were already a Black Wizard.

If I were to change something about the mechanics of the game, it would be to:
A.) Open the cross class skills up to jobs as much as current classes have them, which would lead to ....
B.) Set cross class skills to require the correct weapon type to be used (for example to use Fire 3, you need 1H wand/2H staff/book/unarmed/dagger). This would make it so you COULD add the cross class to your list, but not able to use it unless properly equipped. Rather than excluding the cross class for other jobs, this would lead to....
C.) Bring back the battle regimen system (without bugs) and be able to cooperate with a team in using combos and skill chains.

Not only would this open up the possibility of soloing with the right weapons and plenty of skills available, it might encourage theorycrafting and different playstyles, meaning you could bring in stronger monsters to face instead of one-shot gimmicks. It would also require opening classes and jobs up to a few different types of weapons. It's way too huge of a revamp, though, so it's just a pipe dream.

[Ryans]

I've always thought the class>job system was a bad idea. It was a fun addition in 1.0 to be say, a level 50 lancer, and have dragoon released finally, but it should have replaced lancer instead of augmenting it. I still have hope that when they raise the level cap to allow for more job skills that they will start to feel more unique than the class they are derived from, but that just seems like a chore for the designers rather than a good design choice.

Having only a job system instead of a class/job system could allow for more freedom in weapon choices as well since they wouldn't necessarily have to be controlled by what weapon you have equip, but rather what job stone you have.

It's a little off-topic, but I also am not a fan of the universal skill limit they decided to retain from 1.0. There is no reason a job should be limited in it's arsenal simply to make it fit into a predetermined mold. The reason it made sense in 1.0 is because the UI only had 3 hotbars that went from 1-0 which limited it to 30 possible skills. Now it's just using an archaic template that doesn't take advantage of the much more sophisticated UI.

[rwyan]

I was thinking about this today. I would never think they would re-think the armory/job systems at this point, but I hope they consider it.

The system as it is now, is kind of awkward on both execution and concept. I understand they attempted to retain some aspects of the armory system from 1.0, but I think it's holding the game back. Cross-class abilities don't really add much flavor or interest - not nearly as much as FF11's subjob system.

For example, does Arcanist really need Physik and Rez? Wouldn't have made more sense to design the Scholar with the intent of it cross-classing Cure 1 and Rez from Conjury? I understand why it is the way it is now. But, the way it is now defeats the purpose of cross-class abilities.

When Yoshida started revealing info on the Job system in 1.0, I kind of hoped the job/class relationship would be reversed. I originally expected that players would equip a job stone. That job would then determine what weapons and armor he/she could use. For example, a Paladin may be able to equip sword/shield or lance. He would have access to special paladin abilities in addition to some cross-class/job abilities from conjury/white mage. With a sword and shield equipped, he comes a formidable tank. With lance equipped, he gains a substantial amount of dps capability at the cost of tanking. To me, this would feel more in line with the armory system. Your weapon would determine your role but your job would provide that Final Fantasy flavor.

[Nutz]

There are a lot of issues with the system as is. For instance, people very much expect a sword wielding DPS, but what are they supposed to do with abilities like flash and provoke? Nearly everything would have to be augmented to make any sense and at that point you're holding onto the system for the sake of it rather than because it makes any sense at all. There's also the very limited number of skills that jobs offer to really differentiate them from their class. Of the 5 skills, many jobs don't even use them all regularly. As others have said, they seem to be there to fill a quota.

While I don't have any problems with the armoury system as it currently is, it's not actually flexible in the way it seems like it was designed to be. Future classes will fit in just fine for a while, but jobs are more problematic. Even classes will be stymied by the 1:1 weapon to class ratio, resulting in future classes potentially using very odd weapons, or just arbitrarily defining certain weapons as belonging to one class and not the other (sort of like we see with WHM and BLM weaponry). While I like what they were trying to do, I feel like the best course might be an overhaul.

[Jynx]

Do you think the current armory system is limiting some interesting design choice for future jobs? What kind of improvement would you like to see?

People have been telling Yoshida this from day 1. It's a terrible idea.

[chococo]

Just shows they never think things through the first time.
The moment they planned for smn/sch, they should be aware and plan for the future.
This game keeps changing methods, philosophies; it's so annoying for a player to have to keep changing the way the game is played when everything is already set in stone.