Yoshi-P got it wrong. The mind of a win trader and a solution to win trading

[TeganLaron]

There is a difference of losing over and over and improving compared to losing over and over with no chance of victory.

I wouldn't be attempting turn 6 and 7 with say, a group of ilvl 70 gear. Because that would just be dumb.

In any case, I don't want to have to organise a group together to play 4v4. I would much rather solo queue, play a few games quickly and efficiently. I'm a casual. Due to queue times, my pvp activity is strictly limited to weekends. Would be really nice to come home from work, queue in DF, play a some matches and head to sleep.

I am making open suggestions to improve the pvp scene by suggesting queue times are a serious problem.

Maybe you should too rather than try and personally attack my character?

I'm not attacking you at all, I'm just giving an opinion based off the information you are giving. Clearly you're yet another player in this game who is far too sensitive and thinks everything is an "attack."

You say you're making suggestions, like what? In your OP you say the problem is queue times...well yeah, we all know that. That's not a suggestion. A suggestion would be you actually formulating an ideas to get people interested and excited about doing PvP, making suggestions how to entice non-PvP players into trying it, finding ways to greatly reduce those queue times.

Also, lets highlight this again...

I wouldn't be attempting turn 6 and 7 with say, a group of ilvl 70 gear. Because that would just be dumb.

Well, that's exactly the way solo PvP players feel. Want to know a big reason why the PvP queues suck? Because of people who cheat to rank up such as yourself. What is the point in me queuing solo in my i70 PvP gear if I know I'm just going to get smashed by a group of people who have cheated their way to BiS PvP gear. Your cheating (and yes it is cheating no matter what the Devs say) is as a big a problem as all the others.

Maybe you should actually have a think about some of what I've said rather than just throwing a stroppy and crying every time you perceive a comment as a personal attack.

[Volsung]

Why I'm turned off by the current PVP:

long Que
1 shot round, then done, proceed to reque
over before you know it
small reward

I dont mind the deathmatch at all, but its short, you have to
get in line again, and it just repeats. I would have liked multiple
rounds with a larger reward.

I'm hoping frontlines addresses some of that. 30 min fights, respawning
multiple objectives etc.

I also don't mind morale at all. you do pvp stuff, and get pvp specific
gear, that makes sense to me, but SE does need to be careful in the
despairity becoming too high between players wanting to try out the content.
Always something to keep in mind.

[Murakamo]

Maybe you should actually have a think about some of what I've said rather than just throwing a stroppy and crying every time you perceive a comment as a personal attack.

I rest my case.

Also, if I suggest that pvp queue times are terrible. Isn't there only one solution? To reduce pvp queue times?

Apologies, I didn't think I needed to state that. Just for you, I will put it on the record.

PVP queue times need to be reduced. Now I'm not guru and matchmaking algorithms, so I choose to leave it to the community for input to fix this. That is why I chose to post this on a forum and not on say, a blog post.

Thank you for your time, Tegan.

Why I'm turned off by the current PVP:

long Que
1 shot round, then done, proceed to reque
over before you know it
small reward

I dont mind the deathmatch at all, but its short, you have to
get in line again, and it just repeats. I would have liked multiple
rounds with a larger reward.

I'm hoping frontlines addresses some of that. 30 min fights, respawning
multiple objectives etc.

I also don't mind morale at all. you do pvp stuff, and get pvp specific
gear, that makes sense to me, but SE does need to be careful in the
despairity becoming too high between players wanting to try out the content.
Always something to keep in mind.

You have summed up all my main concerns. Agree 100%

[TeganLaron]

I rest my case.

Also, if I suggest that pvp queue times are terrible. Isn't there only one solution? To reduce pvp queue times?

Apologies, I didn't think I needed to state that. Just for you, I will put it on the record.

PVP queue times need to be reduced. Now I'm not guru and matchmaking algorithms, so I choose to leave it to the community for input to fix this. That is why I chose to post this on a forum and not on say, a blog post.

Thank you for your time, Tegan.

Well, and this will probably be the first comment that is an actual attack, clearly you're not that bright. PvP queue times are long because no one is playing! It's nothing to do with algorithms you can't make a 4 vs 4 if only 7 people are queued.

Sorry, I will put this on record just for you. As clearly you don't understand despite nearly every person in the thread saying it.

4 + 4 = 8. Which means if under 8 people are queued, no match. That means if 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or even 7 people are queued, no match. Is that still too complicated for you? Well take an hour or two to try and figure it out while you're cheating your way up the rank ladder.

[Murakamo]

Well, and this will probably be the first comment that is an actual attack, clearly you're not that bright. PvP queue times are long because no one is playing! It's nothing to do with algorithms you can't make a 4 vs 4 if only 7 people are queued.

Sorry, I will put this on record just for you. As clearly you don't understand despite nearly every person in the thread saying it.

4 + 4 = 8. Which means if under 8 people are queued, no match. That means if 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or even 7 people are queued, no match. Is that still too complicated for you? Well take an hour or two to try and figure it out while you're cheating your way up the rank ladder.

I wish that was the case. Sadly, that is not how pvp matchmaking is right now. It's not that there are no people queuing. There are people queuing, but the system will not allow us to be matched due to the current matching criteria.

Also, please stop questioning my intelligence. It is irrelevant to this discussion and hurts my feelings.

[FelisC]

Have to agree 100% with the people who say that the big problem is that the PVP isn't fun. More fun would mean more people queuing which would mean faster matches. Hopefully frontlines delivers.

I wish that was the case. Sadly, that is not how pvp matchmaking is right now. It's not that there are no people queuing. There are people queuing, but the system will not allow us to be matched due to the current matching criteria.

I've never heard this but if that's true that's very interesting, link?

[VinhSama]

Actually, assuming it's 50/50 win/loss it's 2842 games to go from 0-40. A much lower number of 1895 wins if 100% success rate. Meaning if you're bad, it's flip of the coin as to whether you'll win. If you're good at pvp, you're more likely to win, meaning less games. It takes exactly 116700 exp to go from 0-40. You get 60 exp per win, 20 per loss. This is basic math.

Average queue times for solo queue is around 5 minutes at peak hours if you queue all languages, all 3 level categories. Average match time is 2 minutes. This means 19894 minutes (331 hours) if you're bad, and you're leaving win/loss ratio to the RNG of team allotment, or 13265 minutes (221 hours) if you're somehow amazing enough to win 100% of your matches. This averages out to 2-3 months.

[VinhSama]

You bring up a point about development cycle, and there's something very important that you missed. New content isn't developed with the thought of a "new player" in mind, it's developed with the thought of current players who are already maxed. The main target of the i100 gear aren't rank 0's, but rank 30's who enjoy pvping. Considering that, it takes 66900 exp to level from 30-40. That's only 1672 matches assuming 50/50 win loss, or 1115 wins. Assuming 50/50, that's 195 hours, or 4 hours a day is 48 days. 1.5 months. So yes, on a 3 month development cycle, it takes 1.5 months to finish all the new content they developed. That is perfectly reasonable, and that is how game updates are designed. Afterwards new content is released. If i110 gear comes out, we can assume (with frontlines) it will take 1.5 months (or half the development time) for casual players to get that as well. It makes sense.

[VinhSama]

Although I empathize with the difficulty of pvp, your blatant misrepresentation of fact-checkable information to garner sympathy is (to be blunt) pathetic. To say that it takes 3000-4000 matches is plain wrong. To ignore the fact that new content is geared towards people who are already maxed out is misleading; when new content is released, we aren't suddenly vaulted back to level 0; we save all the progress we made. It makes 100% sense that it takes 1.5 months to finish new content, and 3 months to develop new content. I have no problem with win trading, but skewing facts and using strawman arguments to garner support is despicable.

[Murakamo]

Actually, assuming it's 50/50 win/loss it's 2842 games to go from 0-40. A much lower number of 1895 wins if 100% success rate. Meaning if you're bad, it's flip of the coin as to whether you'll win. If you're good at pvp, you're more likely to win, meaning less games. It takes exactly 116700 exp to go from 0-40. You get 60 exp per win, 20 per loss. This is basic math.

Average queue times for solo queue is around 5 minutes at peak hours if you queue all languages, all 3 level categories. Average match time is 2 minutes. This means 19894 minutes (331 hours) if you're bad, and you're leaving win/loss ratio to the RNG of team allotment, or 13265 minutes (221 hours) if you're somehow amazing enough to win 100% of your matches. This averages out to 2-3 months.

Curious. Did you mean 2-3 months with a 100% win rate or 50% win rate? Whilst, I haven't looked up your calculations to confirm that is true, I am taking your word for it. However, I strongly disagree with your estimated queue times. It is hardly ever that short a wait for me.

Although I empathize with the difficulty of pvp, your blatant misrepresentation of fact-checkable information to garner sympathy is (to be blunt) pathetic. To say that it takes 3000-4000 matches is plain wrong. To ignore the fact that new content is geared towards people who are already maxed out is misleading; when new content is released, we aren't suddenly vaulted back to level 0; we save all the progress we made. It makes 100% sense that it takes 1.5 months to finish new content, and 3 months to develop new content. I have no problem with win trading, but skewing facts and using strawman arguments is is despicable.

I do apologise if I 'misrepresented' facts. These were rough figures that I were hearing from other players and over time I probably forgot the details. Thanks for confirming this to me. I have updated the main post. However, I do believe my rough figures were close enough to the mark so as to not be misleading.

You bring up a point about development cycle, and there's something very important that you missed. New content isn't developed with the thought of a "new player" in mind, it's developed with the thought of current players who are already maxed. The main target of the i100 gear aren't rank 0's, but rank 30's who enjoy pvping. Considering that, it takes 66900 exp to level from 30-40. That's only 1672 matches assuming 50/50 win loss, or 1115 wins. Assuming 50/50, that's 195 hours, or 4 hours a day is 48 days. 1.5 months. So yes, on a 3 month development cycle, it takes 1.5 months to finish all the new content they developed. That is perfectly reasonable, and that is how game updates are designed. Afterwards new content is released. If i110 gear comes out, we can assume (with frontlines) it will take 1.5 months (or half the development time) for casual players to get that as well. It makes sense.

I assume you are using those estimations with a 5 minute queue timer? Sadly, during peak hours that I play, it is hardly ever 5 minutes. If you are getting 5 minute queue timers or less, please tell me your world you play in and the time frame you play at so I can join you.