Yoshi-P got it wrong. The mind of a win trader and a solution to win trading

[Dyvid]

Going back to what I said before about queue times. Being someone who plays in off peak, it is very hard to find a group of 8 people who even want to pvp.

Improving solo queue times is really the only way to go. You could just get a group of 4 pre-made and the queue against the duty finder, but pre-made queue times are about 10 times longer with queue times.

The problem is you can't just wave a magic wand and make it instant queue. It requires 8 people to hold a pvp match. The one and only way to improve that is to get people to actually enjoy pvp'ing. Win trading and botting isn't making people enjoy the experience. In fact the only thing win trading is good for is getting the animal gear and to say different is fooling yourself.

[Murakamo]

But, like, don't you want to play for fun? I mean, isn't that the whole point of playing a game? I understand if you have a full Rank 40 vs Rank 1, yeah they'll get annihilated. But I doubt your win trading groups are that far apart in terms of Rank/Gear. And as a lot of us who do PvP will know that not always the best geared team wins.

Also


Sadly that's just down to a lack of interest in PvP. We can only hope that Frontlines gets people into doing regular matches too. Or at best, Frontlines is so good that it replaces Wolves Den altogether as the go to place for PvP.

Win trade groups take people of all ranks, 0-40. So you will often get a mix of rank 5s, 35s, 27,s etc all in the one team. Yes, you would play for fun. But once again, people do not enjoy losing 90% of the time for 20 matches+. Winning gives people enjoyment. If I could find 4 people who enjoyed losing, that would be awesome. I would play against them all day.

The problem is you can't just wave a magic wand and make it instant queue. It requires 8 people to hold a pvp match. The one and only way to improve that is to get people to actually enjoy pvp'ing. Win trading and botting isn't making people enjoy the experience. In fact the only thing win trading is good for is getting the animal gear and to say different is fooling yourself.

At the moment, they fixed queue times to be the following:

4v4
1 range dps, 1 melee dps, 1 healer, 1 tank
Average rank must be within 3 (or 5?)
You can only be matched with the same people of your data centre

Essentially, yes there are very little people doing pvp. But they have set the criteria for a match to be so particular, it is impossible to find other people as well.

What might be better is if they did the above, but if no match was found to slowly widen the search criteria until it gets someone. Right now, it's like:
No matches? Keep waiting until you get one, which may be in 5 minutes or may be in 2 hours. Enjoy your uncertain wait time.

Honestly, most people farming pvp don't even care if it's an even match. They just want to get in.

[TeganLaron]

Win trade groups take people of all ranks, 0-40. So you will often get a mix of rank 5s, 35s, 27,s etc all in the one team. Yes, you would play for fun. But once again, people do not enjoy losing 90% of the time for 20 matches+. Winning gives people enjoyment. If I could find 4 people who enjoyed losing, that would be awesome. I would play against them all day.

You say winning gives people enjoyment, but you don't even try. You'd rather have no fun whatsoever, with no potential for fun, than at least try to win.

I don't know, to me it just sounds like you want a cheap/quick route to the amazing looking PvP gear. Just my opinion.

[Dyvid]

Well then it sounds like Frontlines is actually fixing some of the issues you have.

[Murakamo]

You say winning gives people enjoyment, but you don't even try. You'd rather have no fun whatsoever, with no potential for fun, than at least try to win.

I don't know, to me it just sounds like you want a cheap/quick route to the amazing looking PvP gear. Just my opinion.

Whoa whoa, hold your horses there. Who said I haven't tried? Let's not get personal here.

Sure have tried. Took about 30 minutes to get a group together. We played about 7 or 8 matches. One team lost maybe 6 of them and then 2 decided to leave.

Back to another half hour of arranging teams.

Well then it sounds like Frontlines is actually fixing some of the issues you have.

I really really hope you're right. I want to read the patch notes on what it will be like so badly right now.

But I'm concerned then that wolves den will be shoved under the carpet.

[Dyvid]

On another note about win trading, you must have found a group of players within your server that want to PvP during times you play, right? Why not make a LS of those players and start your own fight club as it were?

I really really hope you're right. I want to read the patch notes on what it will be like so badly right now.

But I'm concerned then that wolves den will be shoved under the carpet.

Don't know. But I can say WD will still be ranked that requires gear so those hardcore pvp'er can test themselves in a team deathmatch.

[TeganLaron]

Yeah but you say stuff like...

people do not enjoy losing 90% of the time

Erm, isn't that the whole game though? I had a quick look at your character out of curiosity and you've got a High Allagan Caster's mask, so you've beaten Turn 7 at least. Are you trying to say that your group just ploughed through Turn 6 and 7 one shot? And how are 8 and 9 going? If you spend an hour or so wiping are you going to quit Coil because you don't like to lose? Losing is a big part of this game, it's going to happen. As I said before, it just seems like you'd rather take the cheap route to the nice gear rather than work for it honestly, as you would then have to play the percentages which may include *gasp* losing. It's much easier to have a group of 8 constantly trade wins for a pile of pretty looking gear that they will never use other than to show off that they're at a rank they don't deserve.

On another note about win trading, you must have found a group of players within your server that want to PvP during times you play, right? Why not make a LS of those players and start your own fight club as it were?

No, I suggested they actually PvP with the people they trade wins with and they shot that idea down. Clearly that was lunacy.

Nothing else for me to say on the matter I think, it's just a shame that what you do is allowed rather than just be "against the spirit of the game." I can only hope and prey that this doesn't doom Frontlines with all the over-geared win traders wiping out lower ranked honest players.

[Dyvid]

I can only hope and prey that this doesn't doom Frontlines with all the over-geared win traders wiping out lower ranked honest players.

Shouldn't. Morale doesn't matter and all the gear is going to be level sync'ed. Seems like the underdog will have the advantage of experience.

[TeganLaron]

Shouldn't. Morale doesn't matter and all the gear is going to be level sync'ed. Seems like the underdog will have the advantage of experience.

Didn't know about the level sync, that's good news at least

[Murakamo]

Yeah but you say stuff like...



Erm, isn't that the whole game though? I had a quick look at your character out of curiosity and you've got a High Allagan Caster's mask, so you've beaten Turn 7 at least. Are you trying to say that your group just ploughed through Turn 6 and 7 one shot? And how are 8 and 9 going? If you spend an hour or so wiping are you going to quit Coil because you don't like to lose? Losing is a big part of this game, it's going to happen. As I said before, it just seems like you'd rather take the cheap route to the nice gear rather than work for it honestly, as you would then have to play the percentages which may include *gasp* losing. It's much easier to have a group of 8 constantly trade wins for a pile of pretty looking gear that they will never use other than to show off that they're at a rank they don't deserve.




No, I suggested they actually PvP with the people they trade wins with and they shot that idea down. Clearly that was lunacy.

Nothing else for me to say on the matter I think, it's just a shame that what you do is allowed rather than just be "against the spirit of the game." I can only hope and prey that this doesn't doom Frontlines with all the over-geared win traders wiping out lower ranked honest players.

There is a difference of losing over and over and improving compared to losing over and over with no chance of victory.

I wouldn't be attempting turn 6 and 7 with say, a group of ilvl 70 gear. Because that would just be dumb.

In any case, I don't want to have to organise a group together to play 4v4. I would much rather solo queue, play a few games quickly and efficiently. I'm a casual. Due to queue times, my pvp activity is strictly limited to weekends. Would be really nice to come home from work, queue in DF, play a some matches and head to sleep.

I am making open suggestions to improve the pvp scene by suggesting queue times are a serious problem.

Maybe you should too rather than try and personally attack my character?