Yoshi-P got it wrong. The mind of a win trader and a solution to win trading

[Reynhart]

Isn't queue time long just simply because not enough players are playing PvP ?
The problem is not within the game but the players, like long queue time for Duty Finder because so few of us want to play tank.

[Gormogon]

Isn't queue time long just simply because not enough players are playing PvP ?
The problem is not within the game but the players, like long queue time for Duty Finder because so few of us want to play tank.

In a sense. Yet ask yourself, why aren't players playing PvP?

What is there to PvP that should motivate players to do it?

[Reynhart]

In a sense. Yet ask yourself, why aren't players playing PvP?
What is there to PvP that should motivate players to do it?

I don't play PvP because I absolutely don't care about PvP in a PvE game (Although I find the Lion set for PLD gorgeous ).
I can't say for other people.

[Gormogon]

I don't play PvP because I absolutely don't care about PvP in a PvE game (Although I find the Lion set for PLD gorgeous ).
I can't say for other people.

Yup a lot of people got interested in the PvP animal sets but the grind and queue timers are real. It's a shame really.

[Dyvid]

In a sense. Yet ask yourself, why aren't players playing PvP?

What is there to PvP that should motivate players to do it?

The ugly truth? Wolves den just isn't that fun to the majority of the players. This is from Yoshi-P GDC conference.
Fun comes first -> If it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong.



I'm interested in Frontliine because it more akin to battlegrounds meaning it a bigger map with team objectives. Team Death-match are fun but not in a small round room.

[Hiruke]

The ugly truth? Wolves den just isn't that fun to the majority of the players. This is from Yoshi-P GDC conference.
Fun comes first -> If it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong.



I'm interested in Frontliine because it more akin to battlegrounds meaning it a bigger map with team objectives. Team Death-match are fun but not in a small round room.

Honestly, dev team should probably go back and review that presentation and think about what it really means.

It's difficult to believe that the dev team is unaware of the problems with PvP, and yet they do not seem inclined to alleviate it. The grind to get the iLVL 100 set is so bad that I don't even want to win trade to do it, because even by win trading it takes way too long and is not fun. I could play all of, say, Persona 4, and still have a spare 30+ hours that I could have wasted in PvP instead. Is win trading more fun than Persona 4? Not really.

A previous poster strongly implied that PvP gear is not as mission critical as you think, but this is just wrong. Assuming at least average skill, the power of higher level PvP gear is so high as to be almost insurmountable. A tank wearing Direwolf will shred most anyone who is not wearing similar gear. A tank. The gap in power is pretty incredible. Maybe some people enjoy going into PvP and getting beat down by people in crazy PvP gear, but most normal folks really don't enjoy that at all. You generally get matched with people with crazy gear, or people who don't seem to understand the concept of owning PvP gear to begin with (the latter is usually who is stuck on your team... good luck!). PvP might have been more fun if you could only wear PvP gear in Wolves Den (no PvE gear allowed) and it had a better matching system so you didn't end up with folks way stronger than you constantly.

No matter what, the length of time required to get this stuff needs to be drastically reduced. Like, you need to be able to acquire it 10x to 50x faster than you can currently. I'd like to remind you that at the start, you actually got HALF of what you do now in rewards. HALF. The grind used to be TWICE what it is now. That's how out of touch the dev team seems to be when it comes to "fun comes first", that they literally doubled the rewards and its still astronomically out of reach because its nowhere even close to balanced in terms of time spent/rewards gained. The presentation should have said "grinding comes first" between PvP, relic quests, and 1% drop rates for mirrors/mounts/minions. "Never back down", because clearly no one has anything better to do than to stay logged in 24/7 grinding! To get junk! WOO!

I actually don't mind Wolves Den, though it would be nice to have options for 8v8 in a larger arena. There's currently no middle ground between 4v4 in a VERY tight space and a grand melee in a huge area. If they had let you have all PvP abilities when it launched (like they changed it to now) and they had made PvP gear a requirement and had better matching, PvP would have been a lot more fun. The end result right now is that is just kind of sucks, and no one wants much to do with it besides to win trade to vanity gear.

[Namasu]

Honestly, dev team should probably go back and review that presentation and think about what it really means.

Agreed with pretty much everything you said in this post. We should have had objective PVP out long ago. The original plan was for Frontline to be out 6 months into launch. Now it's 9+ months already.

The truth is, they should have had tested the wolves' den long ago in beta, but they didn't (yea they let legacy player poked around for like 7 days but that was such a joke. We couldn't even submit feedback!) Now, you see them launching the wolves' den, then get ugly feedback and wonder why they gotta do so many fixes like unlocking skills and skill balancing etc. Stuffs like that should have been tested long ago or on PTR. NOT ON A LIVE GAME. It's no wonder we are at such a mess with the win trading and the obnoxious pvp grind.

[YmirEsc]

The ugly truth? Wolves den just isn't that fun to the majority of the players. This is from Yoshi-P GDC conference.
Fun comes first -> If it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong.



I'm interested in Frontliine because it more akin to battlegrounds meaning it a bigger map with team objectives. Team Death-match are fun but not in a small round room.

this this this 1000 times this

[Edli]

Isn't queue time long just simply because not enough players are playing PvP ?
The problem is not within the game but the players

Never blame the players. If players act a certain way it's because the game is designed to encourage that behavior.

Why aren't players playing PvP? Why am I not playing PvP? I tried it a few times, didn't really like it. Can you make people play it even though they don't want to do it? Sure, carrot on a stick. PvP armor can do that. I really liked some of those and I wanted to get them for several classes but then I saw how much time it takes and I walked away.

Make it easier to get and people will go after it. Will that make it so a player will quickly get everything for his class and stop playing? Not necessarily because most players have more than one class and they'll go after multiple sets. Currently the grind is so big I'm not bothering with even one piece of armor.

[Reynhart]

Never blame the players. If players act a certain way it's because the game is designed to encourage that behavior.

You're right. Maint content designed for PvE -> I don't care about PvP
Although, If that was a PvP focused game, I wouldn't even try it