Yoshi-P got it wrong. The mind of a win trader and a solution to win trading

[Murakamo]

In a sort of recent interview. yoshi-p stated the following in response to the question about win trading:

There are some people that really want to do PvP but every time they get in, their gear is not good enough to compete with their opponents, so the only way to get that gear is by winning. It creates this loop of wanting to play, but being unable to play and by using that method players can get up there...

Source: http://www.novacrystallis.com/2014/0...naoki-yoshida/

Let me start by saying that I have win traded. Call me what you want. It's what I did and people won't stop until things change.

The reason why I do it is what I wanted to discuss.

According to Yoshi, he believes people win trade because they are not good enough to compete. I would not go so far as to say he is 100% wrong, but mostly wrong.

Let's start by finding out the reason why most people win trade. And that is to get the awesome looking i100 pvp weapons and armour. Where the problem lies is how to acquire those weapons and armour, which is to play pvp matches. This itself is fine. I actually find pvp matches entertaining. However, there are two problems with playing matches to acquire this armour:

1. The amount of games you need to play to be a high enough rank to wear this armour is ridiculously high. We are talking 3000-4000 matches or more (assuming a 50/50 win ratio).

2. The queue times for PVP is also ridiculous.

Put those two problems together and for someone to acquire these equipment would take several months of proper PVP if you do it everyday all day. And in the case of someone working a full time job, several years.

I would just like to put out there that I do not enjoy win trading. In fact, I would much rather play pvp properly. The majority of my PVP win trade LS also agree. They wish they didn't have to win trade.

The solution to greatly reduce win trading is simple. Either 1 or both of the above problems needs to be fixed. I'll be honest, problem 1 isn't that bad. I understand that to get a reward, you need to earn it. Otherwise everyone would be walking around with i100 pvp weapons and armour and it would diminish the value. But if developers and players want to fix this problem, I am not going to complain.

I believe the problem truly lies with problem 2, the queue times. I am in off peak hours. During this time, if I queue for PVP, I would be lucky to get a match once every hour. Even if I play during peak hours, the queue times are still 5 minutes plus and sometimes going to the 20 minute mark and after all that queuing, you play a match that lasts 1-2 minutes and THEN you have the chance of winning or losing.

So anyway, let us assume a queue time of an average of 10 minutes. and a match time of 2 minutes. Let's do some math. I'm going to be optimistic and say it will take me 3000 matches to hit rank 40 (That is VERY optimistic).

12 minutes x 3000 = 36000 minutes or 600 hours.

Wait, 600 hours? That will take about 25 days. Hey, 25 days is not so bad isn't it? Well it isn't if you are a bot and botting 24/7. So let's be a bit more realistic of someone who has no job, no life and is doing it 8 hours a day.

600 hours/8=75

75 days of grinding pvp matches. Now put it in the perspective of someone who works part time. Maybe 4 hours a day? 150 days. Full time? Maybe over 300 days depending on how much time you spend on this. This is also assuming you are not losing the majority of your matches.

Oh and another thing... development cycles on new patches are roughly 3 months. So chances are by the time you finish, the next upgrade of PVP will be out. All the while, you have been neglecting your PVE and other FFXIV activities so you are WAYYYYY behind in everything.

Tell me, who would want to play PVP legitimately in order to reach max rank under these conditions? I sure as hell don't. Under better conditions though. Yes. Yes, I would really want to.

====================================================

Actually, assuming it's 50/50 win/loss it's 2842 games to go from 0-40. A much lower number of 1895 wins if 100% success rate. Meaning if you're bad, it's flip of the coin as to whether you'll win. If you're good at pvp, you're more likely to win, meaning less games. It takes exactly 116700 exp to go from 0-40. You get 60 exp per win, 20 per loss. This is basic math.

Average queue times for solo queue is around 5 minutes at peak hours if you queue all languages, all 3 level categories. Average match time is 2 minutes. This means 19894 minutes (331 hours) if you're bad, and you're leaving win/loss ratio to the RNG of team allotment, or 13265 minutes (221 hours) if you're somehow amazing enough to win 100% of your matches. This averages out to 2-3 months.

This may be true. I cannot find the experience charts from 0-40. Only 0-30. Except I do not agree with the queue time. I've never been that fortunate. In my experiences, you can expect to double or triple that length of time.

Well, and this will probably be the first comment that is an actual attack, clearly you're not that bright. PvP queue times are long because no one is playing! It's nothing to do with algorithms you can't make a 4 vs 4 if only 7 people are queued.

Sorry, I will put this on record just for you. As clearly you don't understand despite nearly every person in the thread saying it.

4 + 4 = 8. Which means if under 8 people are queued, no match. That means if 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or even 7 people are queued, no match. Is that still too complicated for you? Well take an hour or two to try and figure it out while you're cheating your way up the rank ladder.

Incorrect. There could be 50 people queued. But if none of them match your criteria, you will not get matched with any of them.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...211.1402401165

[Musashidon]

Yoshida: If you see someone abusing this, feel free to report it.

justify it all you want, you have set yourself up to get reported by anyone who doesn't like win trading.

[RunaRugar]

to get reported because of something doesn't mean to get banned

[Murakamo]

Report me. The devs have already stated officially that it's allowed. But 'against the spirit.'

[Gormogon]

Sadly that's why I hate these "long" grinds it's very unhealthy yet Square-Enix is known to take this route.

Wish SE would be willing to make another poll and address these longevity grinds as well as the 3-6 month wait period for other players that avoid coil while they are at it.

It would be better for properly addressing this issue and assumptions and speculations are thrown out the window.

[Rubieus]

Long grinds is what kills subscriptions. Content however is what keeps subscriptions. ^o^ Why can't you be on Masamune Mura? I'd love to get me some gears..

[Mardel]

Hey mura, I completely agree i think you and I were in a match together today. You healed I was mrd.

[Fynlar]

Yep. People don't wintrade because they can't win; you get points even for losing.

They do it because it's fast. Brayflox's Nonstop gets dreadfully tedious after a while, but people keep doing it because it's the fastest myths.

[Yukiko]

2 words: asia grinder

[Lemuria]

They could have solved this issue entirely by simply removing morale. The whole concept of PvP only gear is both silly and jarring. A fresh-faced player pugging into a group of people geared to the teeth in PvP gear is not even remotely fun, and puts you at such a significant disadvantage that you can't even adequately compete.