Brayflox's Longstop (Hard) SpeedRun Problem

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

You must understand: I've mentioned it before, but I don't like speed runs at all. I actually find them boring and uninteresting. Purely my opinion, of course. I don't even have a reason to speed run - I am intentionally NOT attempting to complete the Zodiac Saga at all. My reasons for such are all over the forums. I understand they have their use, I've done them plenty of times, and in all 3 roles, and the conclusion I've come to is that I simply don't need to, don't want to, and have no interest in speed running. As such, the idea of discriminating against certain classes for the sake of speed running does not sit well with me at all. In keeping with that, I don't join parties that clearly declare they're speed running. I don't even register for Brayflox HM/Expert Roulette because I don't wish to speed run, and won't leave it up to chance. Because it would be unreasonable of me to refuse to help if I were to join and 3 out of us 4 want to speed run, I simply remove myself from the equation. I don't quit runs, I don't initiate vote kicks, I simply choose not to participate at all. It's my choice and I feel it's rather fair as opposed to expecting an entire group to choose a less popular method, purely for my sake.

I am aware people will want to get something done as fast as possible where/when they can. You could argue my decision to focus on obtaining Coil/Primal weapons is essentially that (when weighed against the Zodiac Saga). But while it's not the first, or perhaps worst example of toxicity in the player community, speed running most certainly perpetuates it. If you're a tank and you can't handle/don't attempt to mass pull or speed run, you're a bad tank. If you're a healer and you can't handle healing through a speed run - ready for it or not - you're a bad healer. If you're a DPS - and you're not the RIGHT DPS for the run - you're completely no good, as far as the mentality goes. You're EXPECTED to speed run, know how to speed run, and there's no room or tolerance for anything otherwise. Castrum Meridianum first timer? Too-bad so sad. You're GOING to speed run, or you're going to miss it all. What began as a more time-efficient, ALTERNATIVE method, has now become and enforced standard. And if you don't know it, can't handle it, or hell, now if you're not even the "right" class for it, that's an instant foul. You're out.

Now this is not me saying "Be that guy who takes a stand and refuses to speed run once in the dungeon" or "dungeons should be longer/harder/made so you can't speed run". Not at all. People will find a way, regardless. But where it only worsens or perpetuates some of the bad practices, mentalities, and aspects of the community, that's where I simply say no. Am I forcing anyone to do what I do? No. But likewise, I will not BE forced. Though I do understand we all want our tomes. We all need our tomes. And we can get them in plenty of ways, fast or slow, easy or challenging. Am I willing to disregard other players who pay to play this like I do, for the sake of MY tomes, when it's our common goal anyways? No.

There is more to this game than speed runs, tome grinding, and the Zodiac Saga. And I'm enjoying everything beyond that without abusing, overstepping, or excluding other players. . . And still hitting the same caps as everyone else.

[Jamez82]

:O

What's happened to people in this day and age? No patience at all.

No wonder there's so much violence in the world these days.

[sheepysheepy]

more people need to be like you thirdchild
dont like something, don't sign up for it
dat logic

[Yonko]

more people need to be like you thirdchild
dont like something, don't sign up for it
dat logic

restrict SRs so you cant do them via DF and i'm right there. I hate getting brayflox in EX roultee because i hate SRs with randoms

[sheepysheepy]

restrict SRs so you cant do them via DF and i'm right there. I hate getting brayflox in EX roultee because i hate SRs with randoms

majority rules

you're minority

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Apparently things really have gotten quite skewed. A story for you:

As one of my FC officers, I really try to help my FC mates where/when I can. Even if that means having to run Brayflox. One member (ironically a BLM) was pretty close to the number of tomes he needed last night, so I bit the bullet and offered to run it with him. I switch to my main - Bard. One of our other members joins as healer and we queue. Spider-senses tingling, I ask "please tell me this is not going to be a speed run?" The BLM replies, "Depends on the tank we get". . .

INSTANT class change to PLD for me.

So we queue again and instantly get in. After the initial greetings and Shield Oath, I take a moment to tell our DPS random member (thread irony: A Dragoon) "FYI, this isn't going to be a speed run". As I lead into the first normal pull, he replies "This dungeon is for speed running"

Me: Not quite. I know most people do speed run this, but I will not. I understand though if you wanted to SR, no hard feelings if you don't want to stay.
DRG: Whatever you're a troll.
Me: No, I simply don't want to speed run this. And I stated that right at the start.
DRG: But that's what Bray is for.
Me: Says you? Or Square Enix? Find me where it says I HAVE to speed run this - I am now leading into the second pull, the DRG finally moves from the starting point - Last chance man, if you want to leave and join a speed running party, no hard feelings.
DRG: [Insert falsified crap line from the dungeon description about how it's intended to speed run] You're being a troll - The DRG at this point takes a seat as we begin the 2nd pull
Me: Fine. [Sword Oath] You tank it then. But I will NOT speed run this. Period.
DRG: (Defiantly) Then you'll have only 1 DPS. Period. - I'm busy fighting - GL on the first boss
Me: No need. I've done it with 1 DPS. I've even tanked this as a Bard. (A fact I forgot until then. I'll have to upload that vid sometime)
DRG: Whatever. Go ahead and kick me then.
Me: I won't kick you because you haven't done anything wrong. Neither one of us has. But I said this wasn't going to be a speed run. I even said if you wanted to leave, no hard feelings. Call me what you will, but I will NOT speed run this.

Those of us fighting (which I can't say I was at that point, due to having it out with that guy, and the healer ran ahead for some reason) wipe, and as we respawn at the start, I offer my apologies to my FC mates for even getting into it with that guy and told them I was done there. Then for the first time since I've been playing this game, I left the instance. Apologies and explanations after the jump, I reaffirm to my BLM buddy and the rest of the FC that I will help them with anything anytime, and if it comes up in a roulette, I'll simply deal with it and still help them, but from now on that's where my line in the sand is.

THIS is the problem I mentioned before. Add to that, this serves to counter the argument that the tank sets the pace of the dungeon. . . So even if I declare at the start that it will not be a speed run, and offer the opportunity to leave with no hard feelings, that's still not enough. It's Brayflox Hard Mode. So you WILL speed run. . . because "this dungeon is for speed running". Just as I said to my FC mates who were there afterward, you find me an official statement from SE or something in-game that CLEARLY dictates that I have to speed run Brayflox HM, and I will be come the best speed runner there is.

It'll probably be a long time before I even think about going back to that dungeon (I was never much a fan of either version of Brayflox). I don't need tomes or that minion that badly at all.

[Yonko]

majority rules

you're minority

I'm aware. I do speed run when it comes up but that doesn't mean I have to like it. The daily roulette bonus for EX is enough to keep me doing the EX roulette even with the chance of getting brayflox and having to do a SR.

If I really wanted to I could end any speed run since it is really hard to SR without the healer but I'm not an ass so I keep up despite not liking it.

[Aidalyn]

Apparently things really have gotten quite skewed. A story for you:

*insert duty finder pug argument*

I probably would've stopped talking at "Whatever you're a troll." Or, as I tell my 4-year-old, "I love you too much to argue," then do what I was going to do anyway. And if the DRG calls you names and absolutely refuses to participate, then guess what? He HAS done something wrong and is worth being kicked. In retrospect, don't you think you could have better encouraged change in this arena by standing your ground instead of abandoning the instance (and your FC-mates) and essentially giving your consent to one stubborn DPS to have it his way? This story looks like you let your own frustrations get the better of you.

With that said, I do agree there would be benefit in a potential update that can mechanically discourage (or at least distinguish) speed runs in the Duty Finder.

[PetiteMalFleur]

Snip

I'm confused why you wouldn't just kick him when he asked. You said no hard feelings but we're willing to force him to take the 30 minute penalty even after he offered a solution to your disagreement.

[reckless76]

Apparently things really have gotten quite skewed. A story for you:
...

I'm having trouble with this part:
"I won't kick you because you haven't done anything wrong. Neither one of us has. But I said this wasn't going to be a speed run. I even said if you wanted to leave, no hard feelings."

Exactly how magnanimous do you feel it is to say, "If you want to leave, no hard feelings, but take the penalty, cause we won't kick you."