Brayflox's Longstop (Hard) SpeedRun Problem

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Good points, you've all made. I had, at the time completely forgotten the penalty existed (at least until I myself incurred it, and it didn't seem like 30 minutes. More like 15.) Beyond that, I did exactly what most people agree to do. Rather than assume/force a NON-speed run, I told him right away. This wasn't "quit now and deal with the penalty", no. This was "I understand you want to speed run and we don't. It's nothing personal if you don't want to stick around." Same thing, but spun quite differently. Telling me to kick him felt like more of an act of defiance than anything else (and would it technically have not been vote kick abuse?), though I am rather upset with myself for even getting into it with him. I just wanted to help an FC mate, and if I feel bad about anything, it's abandoning FC mates over petty nonsense like that. I might not like Brayflox, but for the right reasons, I can stomach it.

Beyond that, the answer is simple to me: Just don't run Brayflox. If "majority rules" and the majority wants to speed run (insert irony here that this time 1 our of 4 wanted to. . . majority rules?), then I can just as easily avoid the sway of majority rule and not run it. I'm not missing anything. As far as incurring the time penalty, I'm again not missing much as there's still plenty to do beyond instances and the like. The big point of debate was "this dungeon is for speed running". Maybe a small part of me just wanted to challenge and defeat that mindset, and if so, that's quite a childish small part.

Live and learn, I suppose.

[Aidalyn]

I still don't have any personal experience with Brayflox HM yet, but do speed runs in the Duty Finder even make sense? If the goal is to run as fast as possible multiple times, I'd think the queue waits alone would just slow you down. Then factor in that you don't know what you're getting for teammates in terms of classes, gear, experience, and ability. And then also factor in that you have no guarantee that the players joining even wanted to speed run, and you'll get into arguments like the one mentioned. Given all that, I would think the Duty Finder SR approach kind of defeats the purpose, at which point it sounds like a vain attempt from those too lazy to form their own party or level the appropriate jobs. In that case, I'd suspect "caveat emptor" would more appropriately trump the ochlocracy of "majority rules."

But again, no personal experience at this yet. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Yonko]

Stupid char limit is Stupid.

It normally happens in DF due to duty roulette and the bonus from that.

[NaliaBrown]

So we queue again and instantly get in. After the initial greetings and Shield Oath, I take a moment to tell our DPS random member (thread irony: A Dragoon) "FYI, this isn't going to be a speed run".

Hmm. I wonder what would have happened if you had just started the dungeon without staying it wouldn't be a speed run? I'm guessing the DRG would have gone with it. He might have complained, or maybe run ahead and pulled and gotten himself killed, but I'm guessing after that he'd just go along with it or leave.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I want to believe that, Nalia. I really do. Sadly, the first time I tanked BHM (admittedly, dragging my i80-something tank out of suspension), I had an i90-something Bard that pretty much made the assumption that it was a speed run and surged ahead. I'm not petty enough to just let him get killed, and I actually did have an interest in running it that time (the minion, I think). At the first boss, he flies ahead and starts the fight, so I follow with some enemies in tow (a bit spitefully, I admit), and start doing what I do as a tank. Someone else, lightly comments "lol, you're supposed to lock them out". . .

. . .Until then, I had NEVER done a mob lockout. Didn't even know what it was or how to do it. Sure, I figured it out quick, but do you see how this speed-running obsession essentially teaches/enforces bad mechanics? While I'm not new to tanking, imagine teaching that to a fresh 50, or even a newbie tank. Imagine that he learns "this is the way it's supposed to be done", and carries that forward into other content. Does it still make sense? Does "Why aren't you doing this thing you don't know about that completely defies the basics of how your class is played?!" make any sense?

It's no big deal really. People learn/adopt/create bad mechanics all the time. Hell, I'm known to experiment with things (with a well-geared, premade party, well aware of my crazy ideas beforehand) but I see the potential for more harm than good. Fresh 50 healers that only know to use Medica/Medica 2. Tanks that assume/attempt speed runs with everything - specific dungeon mechanics be damned. DPS that only know to aoe. . . Sure, I'm making some pretty extreme cases, but we've almost all seen it already. Speed runs might be a necessary evil, but it's starting to become more evil than it is necessary.

[Yuber]

a simple solution might be to put in PF that you can do it really fast runs as DRG. ive done it with drg+blm combo and it seems pretty fast to me.

[Alise]

it is all about Supply and Demand.
People want to eat 2x Orange, you can't force them to eat 1 Apple and 1 Orange.