I think it is time to admit the obvious - Echo is an insult to the average gamer.

[Fawkes]

Instead of the echo, I would rather see something like a deadly boss mods add on implemented. I think right now it's pretty commonly accepted that you should watch a video before attempting a fight, so I don't think it would be that much worse if during a fight the game itself just said "Yo, this thing's gonna happen in 5 seconds, get ready to move over there". It would force bad players to know the fight, despite their best efforts of not watching videos or having no ability to remember patterns. And maybe they even learn how to identify patterns or react better for future fights by seeing things more plainly presented in game.

Expecting players to go to some source outside the game is silly. It's why we have quest trackers that tell you exactly where to go now, because 99% of players just looked it up on a wiki anyway. It's just cutting out the middle man. And I'm not saying to do this for all content, just the old content as a way of making it easier.

[Crimson-Falcon]

Feb -> new
Mar -> newer
Apr -> newest
May+ -> fetus

this made my day LOL

[Sairii]

Instead of the echo, I would rather see something like a deadly boss mods add on implemented. I think right now it's pretty commonly accepted that you should watch a video before attempting a fight, so I don't think it would be that much worse if during a fight the game itself just said "Yo, this thing's gonna happen in 5 seconds, get ready to move over there".

So you want an addon to play the game for you?.....

You don´t need to watch a guide. You don´t need to do research.
Sure you will probably die if you play half asleep and dont react fast enough.

But its more fun than reading something on your screen so you can go through the content without doing anything.

Bad players are probably still going to get hit by landslides etc.
And your programm cannot tell from which direction levi is gonna jump at you.
Its all stuff you have to learn irl.

The game is fun because its not just faceroll on keyboard.

[Fawkes]

So you want an addon to play the game for you?.....

You don´t need to watch a guide. You don´t need to do research.
Sure you will probably die if you play half asleep and dont react fast enough.

But its more fun than reading something on your screen so you can go through the content without doing anything.

Bad players are probably still going to get hit by landslides etc.
And your programm cannot tell from which direction levi is gonna jump at you.
Its all stuff you have to learn irl.

The game is fun because its not just faceroll on keyboard.

Except most players who know the content well will tell you that it is a faceroll. The only difficulty is having 8 of those players together.

Whether it is fun or not is a separate argument. I don't think it's fun for people laying on the bottom of Titan's arena while the 3 people with echo get them a win. I would like to believe that people want to and can learn and get better.

[Sairii]

text

Well yeah it is after you got some exp.

Certainly its not fun for the 5 dead people but they had their chance.

I main healer. I ress alot of players in Trials. What happens after ress?
They die to the same stuff again a few minutes later.

I saw the "old" titan hm. It was a mess. I could have killed people for being that stupid.

It is no fun for the dead people because they died.
But it also wouldnt be fun for the players that did their best but still wiped because people died, thus not getting a win. Over and over again.

OLD titan hm: "I am a good player and can do this fight perfectly but cannot get a win because the other players are bad."
New titan hm: "I am a bad player and because im bad I died but its totally unfair that I got the win. Stupid players that gave their best in order to win, why cant we just wipe 100 times?"

[TurnBased]

snip

Please clear Titan EX and Turn 5 before you make that assumption

[Nayto]

The average gamer watches a video before fighting anyways because the un-average player kicks them out if they don't do so.
Most people die because they don't know the script. These battles are learned through trial and error and unfortunately the farm mentality doesn't promote that learning anyways.

There's no intelligence to insult if there's no environment to foster it anyways.

This all applies only if your doing these battles through the DF, though. Using a PF to create an environment where your not pressured to 'live up to a mainstream standard' is still an option... a very tedious option though.

[Fawkes]

Well yeah it is after you got some exp.

Certainly its not fun for the 5 dead people but they had their chance.

I main healer. I ress alot of players in Trials. What happens after ress?
They die to the same stuff again a few minutes later.

I saw the "old" titan hm. It was a mess. I could have killed people for being that stupid.

It is no fun for the dead people because they died.
But it also wouldnt be fun for the players that did their best but still wiped because people died, thus not getting a win. Over and over again.

OLD titan hm: "I am a good player and can do this fight perfectly but cannot get a win because the other players are bad."
New titan hm: "I am a bad player and because im bad I died but its totally unfair that I got the win. Stupid players that gave their best in order to win, why cant we just wipe 100 times?"

I can't tell what you are arguing now. First you say you prefer people dying rather than a more informative display of enemy moves, then you say you don't think dying is fun for anyone. You don't want new players to be able to learn and get good, and think they should just be carried through everything? Obviously if they are just dying to the same stuff again they need help learning, why would it be bad for the game to tell them when a landslide is about to come, so maybe they can be ready to dodge?

[Sairii]

text

What I´m trying to say is that the removal of echo would be unfair to those that are actually giving their best.

You don´t need anything to tell you whats going to come. You have enough time to react when the landslide appears.
Ofc dying is no fun, but it is even less fun to wipe because someone else made a mistake.

You talk about learning. But a display telling you what move is about to come isn´t going to teach you anything.
Its like the game playing itself. That would be the ultimate insult to every player.

If you are unsatisfied with your own performance and want to learn more than just go in the fight again.
Nothing is hindering you.

But the removal of echo would hinder players that actually give their best.

[Altonfenri]

He doesnt think echo is too good... he wants an easier fight by taking out difficult mechanics as opposed to have an easier time learning them. Basically just taking landslide and weights out of titan.