I think it is time to admit the obvious - Echo is an insult to the average gamer.

[Authority]

While I do agree that old content must be easier to clear and hence it is easier to farm right now gear that requires tomes of Mythology, Echo acts as an obstacle rather than an enhancement.

Why is the fact of getting easier gear not the same help as receiving Echo? It is simple.

• You still have to start from scratch and work your way through
• You still have to grind allot to obtain gear that requires tomes of Mythology
• You still have to learn boss fights
• You still have to be challenged
• You still need to understand the complexity of in-game mechanisms

Basically less grind (which in this case there is still significant grind) does not mean that the challenge is easier. It means that you still have to work and sweat but it will take less time to do so.

And how much different is that to Echo? Well let us look again at the bullet points. In short,

• Echo promotes the most flawed idea that removes the challenge from the game, the idea that dying has no consequence because you will get the buff required to pass it through regardless of your performance.
  
• Echo being your pillar where no matter what happens, it will guarantee you the easy way out, does not actually help the player. It only pushes players that are not ready for the next challenge, to be moved to more complex and more difficult challengers.
  
• Echo in a way, is like a PvP buff where the losing team is unable to fight back and is granted a "pity buff" instead of relying on its own powers and capabilities. For someone to have an in-game buff after dying, it means the system considers you as someone who is not capable to learn, adapt and improve and that is why is an insult.
  
  Echo in the big picture is not such a big deal, but it creates a type of culture that should expect to die and not be punished.

And that is exactly why Echo is counter-productive. It creates a system where players are not ready to progress further in the game because they have learned that it is "ok" to make a mistake because at the end of the day, Echo will help them pull through. If players do not learn to deal with situations accordingly, they will pass on the same problematic patterns or weaknesses to stronger parts of the game. It moves the problem to the next challenge and does not deal with it because the same players are bound to repeat the same mistakes if not more.

Everyone is capable of getting things done with practice. Practice makes you better.

These are my thoughts as a new player.

[RickXRolled]

I agree. Whenever I join titan hm to pass the time and people fail, they see this buff and think hurrah! leet buffs! Then when they finally win with 30-50% echo they are like:" We did it guys!". (While still dead on the floor mind you.)

I thought I was the only one that actually saw the echo notification as an insult telling you you suck and need the game to help you.

[Vahlnir]

I agree. Whenever I join titan hm to pass the time and people fail, they see this buff and think hurrah! leet buffs! Then when they finally win with 30-50% echo they are like:" We did it guys!". (While still dead on the floor mind you.)

I thought I was the only one that actually saw the echo notification as an insult telling you you suck and need the game to help you.

To me it isn't so much of an insult if you know you're doing well, and I'm fairly confident in my own abilities. For some groups it's literally their only chance at a win...especially when it comes to Titan HM. It's far from a guaranteed win though when it does kick in.

[RickXRolled]

To me it isn't so much of an insult if you know you're doing well, and I'm fairly confident in my own abilities. For some groups it's literally their only chance at a win...especially when it comes to Titan HM. It's far from a guaranteed win though when it does kick in.

I don' t see it as an insult to me specifically, since I already know I don' t need it to perform flawlessly on titan hm or any other primal for that matter. I meant it more as an insult to those who can' t seem to get the fight down by ordinary means, but can with multiple stacks of echo.(multi-plume eaters who can survive through sheer hp)

[Vahlnir]

I don' t see it as an insult to me specifically, since I already know I don' t need it to perform flawlessly on titan hm or any other primal for that matter. I meant it more as an insult to those who can' t seem to get the fight down by ordinary means, but can with multiple stacks of echo.(multi-plume eaters who can survive through sheer hp)

I get what your saying, but some people take longer than others to learn a fight, and if I'm stuck in queue with a group who learns slowly it grows frustrating. That said I continue to help until someone leaves regardless. Also, I just noticed who created this thread. They don't have a lot of credibility to begin with, yet they keep making threads.

[HeroSamson]

I agree. Whenever I join titan hm to pass the time and people fail, they see this buff and think hurrah! leet buffs! Then when they finally win with 30-50% echo they are like:" We did it guys!". (While still dead on the floor mind you.)

I thought I was the only one that actually saw the echo notification as an insult telling you you suck and need the game to help you.

Are you going to help them? Because from what I have seen people say are "why should I take my time out to help someone else" Why even complain about the buff when you already did the fight.

When people have probably been struggling for months, you think they shouldn't enjoy the full content or be stuck in one place forever?

[RickXRolled]

Are you going to help them? Because from what I have seen people say are "why should I take my time out to help someone else" Why even complain about the buff when you already did the fight.

When people have probably been struggling for months, you think they shouldn't enjoy the full content or be stuck in one place forever?

I do titan 3-8 times a day to pass the time. 95% of the time I complete them, whether it' s with or without echo depends on the rest. The amount of people I' ve carried as the only living dps or the only healer is ridiculously high.
If I see someone actually trying and improving I will keep going for their sake. if I see people die in I90+ and not improve I will still try to finish the fight but I won' t really care if we win or not.

I' ve been doing this since November, back then I did it by joining shout/pf once it was introduced. Now I just quee for it in the DF.

[Chambers]

"Echo is an insult to you."

If you don't want the echo buff it can be removed.

[Fizzie]

"Echo is an insult to you."

If you don't want the echo buff it can be removed.

^ This.

Not everybody is an elitist.

[Exstal]

^ This.

Not everybody is an elitist.

The average gamer can't be elite anyway.