Story falls apart at the end...

[Senfei]

This thread again?

[yoshikwalla]

I actually quit because of this. I played this game since closed ALPHA back in early-to-mid 2010. I've waited years for the epic battle against Gaius van Baelsar, and to be prevented from experiencing the finale to a Final Fantasy game's main storyline, even if it one of many, is unforgivable from an RPG standpoint and a gaming standpoint.

Level 48-50 is when the game stops being an RPG and starts becoming a repetitive mechanics-driven simulation game a la DOTA and League of Legends. 1.0 was, in a lot of ways, a terrible game for most of its life cycle. But as an RPG, it blows this game to smithereens. Over the course of the game's life cycle, it was tweaked and updated and formatted to tell a story. In this game, the exact opposite is happening.

Any RPG that introduces gameplay systems that ruin the role-playing experience (in this particular case, the Duty Roulette) is not a good RPG. And definitely not a good Final Fantasy game.

[Vahlnir]

I actually quit because of this. I played this game since closed ALPHA back in early-to-mid 2010. I've waited years for the epic battle against Gaius van Baelsar, and to be prevented from experiencing the finale to a Final Fantasy game's main storyline, even if it one of many, is unforgivable from an RPG standpoint and a gaming standpoint.

Level 48-50 is when the game stops being an RPG and starts becoming a repetitive mechanics-driven simulation game a la DOTA and League of Legends. 1.0 was, in a lot of ways, a terrible game. But as an RPG, it blows this game to smithereens.

Any RPG that introduces gameplay systems that ruin the role-playing experience (in this particular case, the Duty Roulette) is not a good RPG. And definitely not a good Final Fantasy game.

Well, I sympathize with your experience, but this is NOT just an RPG...it's an MMO. You will need to group with people to do certain things. People doing SRs for the story mode dungeons grinds my gears to no end but there isn't much you can do about it. If this is what made you quit you probably wouldn't have played much longer anyway if you stayed. All that said, if you're looking for the RP perspective of it, you are probably better off listing yourself in the PF for such things with like-minded individuals.

[yoshikwalla]

Well, I sympathize with your experience, but this is NOT just an RPG...it's an MMO. You will need to group with people to do certain things.

Yes, but this is also a Final Fantasy game. Instead of focusing on creating a shared RPG experience, they've opted to throw story-telling out the window and focus on something completely different. "It's an MMO" should never be a viable excuse for bad storytelling in a Final Fantasy game.

People have been complaining about the storyline's ending for a long time now. These are people who just want to enjoy the story of a Final Fantasy game. And to people like that - Final Fantasy fans who have skipped 1.0 due to its incredibly bad press only to find 2.0 to be worse - I feel an immeasurable amount of pity.

Want to know why the development team isn't fixing it? It isn't their goal. Their goal isn't to create and refine an RPG - it's to make and refine a raiding game.

And how could they know better? Yoshi-P is the only Square Enix higher-up who has demonstrated knowledge on modern Western MMORPG design. Without him, Square Enix is to Western MMOs what pocket gophers are to advanced computronics. And thanks to 1.0's financial disaster of a launch, Square Enix is too afraid to change the game's direction. And that's completely understandable.

In other words, this isn't going to change.

[Vahlnir]

Yes, but this is also a Final Fantasy game. Instead of focusing on creating a shared RPG experience, they've opted to throw story-telling out the window and focus on something completely different. "It's an MMO" should never be a viable excuse for bad storytelling in a Final Fantasy game.

I don't get what you're trying to say with the whole "throw story-telling out the window" thing, but my statement about having to group with others in an MMO still stands. That is exactly what this game is, with Final Fantasy elements. Whether the story is bad or not is an opinion on both sides. I find myself loving the story so far. Perhaps this just isn't the game for you, which certainly looks to be the case. SE clearly did something right though as this game is definitely on the rise. As to how other players handle the last 2 dungeons of the main scenario, I certainly don't approve. If I were you, I would have watched the cutscenes the first time through, then ran it a 2nd time to enjoy the battles. You still get the experience, just not 100% your way.

[Yshnal]

As I've told many times to impatient speedrunners in CM and Prae, if they're really in a rush they can always do two speedruns to Brayflox and they get the same reward in 10 minutes (but, as a wise person once said, most players are... well... stupid). The duty roulettes for low level and main scenario dungeons should only be done by level 50 players if they want to get their mythos while helping, without any "skipyourcutscenesNAOandwatchthemattheinn" hurries, nor ragequits.

Why can't we be more welcoming to newbies? Why the need to point them to watch anything at the inn and/or use the PF instead of giving them a warm welcome? Why can't we make their run enjoyable instead of miserable, ruining the whole story for them? That's how we want both the game and the community to grow? Some don't care, I know, it was just a rethorical question. I know where I stand, anyway, and I'll keep defending (and waiting for) everyone that wants to watch their cutscenes on my runs.

[ispano]

Yes, but this is also a Final Fantasy game. Instead of focusing on creating a shared RPG experience, they've opted to throw story-telling out the window and focus on something completely different. "It's an MMO" should never be a viable excuse for bad storytelling in a Final Fantasy game.

People have been complaining about the storyline's ending for a long time now. Want to know why the development team isn't fixing it? It isn't their goal. Their goal isn't to create and refine an RPG - it's to make and refine a raiding game.

And how could they know better? Yoshi-P is the only Square Enix higher-up who has demonstrated knowledge on modern Western MMORPG design. Without him, Square Enix is to Western MMOs what pocket gophers are to advanced computronics.

This is a common flaw I see in people's thinking. They see it as a Final Fantasy Game before being an MMO. Or console players who see it as a console game before being an MMO. And that's wrong. It's an MMO before either of those, and yes, that matters. The difference between single player games and MMOs is huge.

[Vahlnir]

This is a common flaw I see in people's thinking. They see it as a Final Fantasy Game before being an MMO. Or console players who see it as a console game before being an MMO. And that's wrong. It's an MMO before either of those, and yes, that matters. The difference between single player games and MMOs is huge.

Nailed it. Maybe I wasn't quite getting my point on that across correctly.

As I've told many times to impatient speedrunners in CM and Prae, if they're really in a rush they can always do two speedruns to Brayflox and they get the same reward in 10 minutes (but, as a wise person once said, most players are... well... stupid). The duty roulettes for low level and main scenario dungeons should only be done by level 50 players if they want to get their mythos while helping, without any "skipyourcutscenesNAOandwatchthemattheinn" hurries, nor ragequits.

Why can't we be more welcoming to newbies? Why the need to point them to watch anything at the inn and/or use the PF instead of giving them a warm welcome? Why can't we make their run enjoyable instead of miserable, ruining the whole story for them? That's how we want both the game and the community to grow? Some don't care, I know, it was just a rethorical question. I know where I stand, anyway, and I'll keep defending (and waiting for) everyone that wants to watch their cutscenes on my runs.

It is very rare, but there are groups that stand up for new players who want to get the full experience. Just the other night I was part of such a group. The one tank kept speeding forward, after the first boss about half the group spoke up and said they were going to stand by the 1 new player we had, at which time the tank ragequitted. Ended up clearing it with 1 tank and everyone walked away happy.

[yoshikwalla]

I don't get what you're trying to say with the whole "throw story-telling out the window" thing, but my statement about having to group with others in an MMO still stands. That is exactly what this game is, with Final Fantasy elements. Whether the story is bad or not is an opinion on both sides. I find myself loving the story so far. Perhaps this just isn't the game for you, which certainly looks to be the case. SE clearly did something right though as this game is definitely on the rise. As to how other players handle the last 2 dungeons of the main scenario, I certainly don't approve. If I were you, I would have watched the cutscenes the first time through, then ran it a 2nd time to enjoy the battles. You still get the experience, just not 100% your way.

You're right - this isn't the game for me. This is actually my worst favorite Final Fantasy game now. Even 13 had a competent ending. So I quit. I just wanted to make a quick statement. You can stand by your opinion all you like - I respect your opinion.

They did do something right, too. This is an amazing raiding game. This game fills a hole that a lot of ex-World of Warcraft players have been drooling about for years. And regardless of my disappointment, I'm still happy to see a game that I've supported be financially successful. But this is not a good Final Fantasy game.

[yoshikwalla]

This is a common flaw I see in people's thinking. They see it as a Final Fantasy Game before being an MMO. Or console players who see it as a console game before being an MMO. And that's wrong. It's an MMO before either of those, and yes, that matters. The difference between single player games and MMOs is huge.

It's not a flaw for someone to think that if they're buying a Final Fantasy game, it will play like a Final Fantasy game and should be compared to other Final Fantasy games.

What is Final Fantasy? A series of RPGs.