NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Mcshiggs]

It can't be iconic if it was only in a single game.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_(Job) You can see here that thief has not only been in Final Fantasy since the original, it has appeared in many more games.

[Exstal]

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_(Job) You can see here that thief has not only been in Final Fantasy since the original, it has appeared in many more games.

The ability to play it at endgame, for the very starters. Seems like many iconic Thief abilities won't be included. It's not the same if you've ever played previous FFs. Definitely nowhere near as close as Marauder >> Warrior/Fighter.

Steal is a huge branch onto itself, then there's yokodama and hate control. That's also excluding all of the MMO specific things they could add that's new like they've done for every job, as both points have been explained multiple times.

Yokodama and hate control was only in FFXI. Hence my statement is fully justified.

[Mcshiggs]

Yokodama and hate control was only in FFXI. Hence my statement is fully justified.

The benefit of a thief in early final fantasies was flee, letting the party escape from battle, which is kind of an aggro dump mechanic if you think about it, XI took it a little further, they had flee as a personal sprint, but added in aggro redirection mechanics, but still in a way they are getting folks out of trouble just like in the original.

[silentwindfr]

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_(Job) You can see here that thief has not only been in Final Fantasy since the original, it has appeared in many more games.

indeed we can see thief as basic that must be there... but like said before thief move are... bland or don't feel like a jobs like one. steal, will not happend or will be a pain to balance (if they add steal of aggro, stats,..), mug is like steal that out, Flee? it's something that can be given to any sneaky class. and that all... is not enough for make a jobs. a jobs now have only 5 skill, but in the futur will get tons of more skill.... they can't add a jobs that only have 3.... potential skill.

i have seen it coming, thief for me is not more than a class, not fit to be a jobs!

[Bigpurpleharness]

Yokodama and hate control was only in FFXI. Hence my statement is fully justified.

You're arguing simply for the sake of arguing now.

So out of morbid curiosity, how many previous FF titles must abilities and classes be in before they're considered standard-FF fare? I want your exact number so we can apply it to other jobs and see how well the argument holds up. Since you know, being in >10 FFs isn't iconic to warrant it's own job like every other job in the game (Except SCH, which has only been in 3 numbered titles, including FFXIV and one should be disregarded since it was XI, right?). Because Thief is *unarguably* one of the most core jobs in the FF series. Hell, it's had more main protagonists than some XIV jobs have had appearances.

Also, thief has more iconic abilities to put in than most of the jobs that have appeared also, and that's *excluding* the fact they can easily put in new ones to boot, just like every other job. (Though they wouldn't need to, because the old stuff could easily give 5+ job specific abilities alone).

Do I need to go through and count how many times in this thread you've been told that, many times with specific examples and links to the very games showing you this?

[Exstal]

You gave a specific statement. I gave a specific response. When you think of Thief (if you've played all version except XI), what do you think of when you think of that class? Steal, Mug and Flee. Skills you've come to naturally expect from that particular job. You don't think of yokodama (which I found out is some form of side attack) and hate control (which didn't exist in any game except XI). So how many titles does it need to be? All the ones it appears in. It's what you come to expect of the class, what is labelled to that class. You don't think of Paladin's iconic skill as Holy do you? How about Ifrit from Black Mages? If you're going to throw statements like, "many iconic Thief abilities aren't going to be added" then give out two skills that, if you didn't play XI, would have no idea what they are, it's a fallacy.

I don't recall ever saying Thief itself wasn't iconic. I wouldn't be so foolish to ever say something silly like that. As I said, it was in response to your specific statement. As for Scholar, I believe it was a special case. For MMO reasons, there had to be a second healer. So you have a choice, White Mage which has pretty much been the only healer in all Final Fantasy games (except XI) and something else. So you have a class (SCH) who has no defined identity. Scan bot? So they could play with that because the only thing that it had was Scan, which is basically worthless in an MMO sense.

[silentwindfr]

a good example is the thief in bravely default, personally i use it as sub class than main one. (generally with ninja as main class.) the class by itself is not really powerfull outside steal, you have nothing really iconic that can make it into a mmorpg like FF14, where stealing is bad. (since we are heroes)

you are asking something that will never happend, it's sad, i can understand it.... but they still have make a new look only for the rogue, if you look at the video. then like some have said, play you ninja as a thief and move over it.

[Alberel]

a good example is the thief in bravely default, personally i use it as sub class than main one. (generally with ninja as main class.) the class by itself is not really powerfull outside steal, you have nothing really iconic that can make it into a mmorpg like FF14, where stealing is bad. (since we are heroes)

you are asking something that will never happend, it's sad, i can understand it.... but they still have make a new look only for the rogue, if you look at the video. then like some have said, play you ninja as a thief and move over it.

If being a thief is unheroic and thus incompatible with any game where you are the hero then WHY is it in every FF game where you are all HEROES?

It's also worth pointing out that pretty much all of the jobs in the game so far only have one or two iconic skills. Hell all jobs in FF history revolve around just a couple of iconic skills. Can people stop using lines of reasoning to say that Thief cannot happen as a job when the same reasoning would disqualify every job already in the game...

[silentwindfr]

generally thief into this game evolve for this and become more heroic, they are not really a thief at the end.

[Alberel]

generally thief into this game evolve for this and become more heroic, they are not really a thief at the end.

I already made a post on this a few pages back. Rogue could become Thief in exactly the same way Thaumaturge becomes Black Mage. Black Mage is also a forbidden job and you are technically breaking the law and treading the grey area between good and evil by touching black magic... If it can happen there why can't a Rogue rediscover the abilities they gave up to comply with the law?

I've said it a bunch of times before and I'll say it again: GUILDS have to comply with the law as they are a part of the city, JOBS do not as the player is (in the lore) usually one of only a handful in existence.