first it was crafting and gathers, now it pvpers...

[Ganbachi]

Perhaps the 1st battleground is based on no morale as an introduction and next patches we might get new battlegrounds with morale.

[Nalien]

They could easily accomplish this with an exclusive gear set color.... No need for morale..... Same stats as comparable coil gear.

Are you seriously suggesting people would go out of there way to obtain gear that's exactly the same as Coil gear, but a different colour?

Sorry, that isn't a system for progress. That's a vanity system. I honestly don't know if you're being serious or not. They might as well not add any new gear to the game, people will be happy doing Coil 3 just to obtain some gear that has a different colour, not need to increase iLv or stats. All progression takes is a different colour of gear.

Sorry if I hit a nerve pointing out that you were completely wrong with regards to PvE/PvP balance, though.

You'd be surprised how far people will go or pay to look different on a MMO

Still besides the point though. Vanity gear doesn't differentiate PvP gear from PvE gear. It would literally just be vanity gear. There's no "I obtain AF, then Darklight, then Mythology/Coil, etc." that we see with PvE. PvP should have an equivalent to that, and it almost did, but SE screwed progression over so hard, the progression "curve" for PvP was poorly balanced. i70 PvP gear should have been much easier to obtain, if that were the case, entering a i80 cap Frontlines with Morale wouldn't be such a massive deal. You do Frontlines, you like it, you grind some Wolves' Den and get i70 quickly, you're on an almost level playing field with everyone else in Frontlines (i90 PvP would be capped down to i80).

That would have provided motivation for players to actually use Wolves' Den, instead Frontlines looks set to kill Wolves' Den in its entirety and then fizzle out after a few months. Without progression and a core community behind it, queues will just be far too inconsistent for people to realistically enter "for fun".

That is pretty much what the Myth/Soldiery gear is.

Except for the fact that you could only obtain a finite amount of Myth/Coil1 gear a week, and can now only obtain a finite amount of Sold/Coil2 gear a week, sure.

[Ispen]

Are you seriously suggesting people would go out of there way to obtain gear that's exactly the same as Coil gear, but a different colour?

You'd be surprised how far people will go or pay to look different on a MMO

[Ultimatecalibur]

Are you seriously suggesting people would go out of there way to obtain gear that's exactly the same as Coil gear, but a different colour?

That is pretty much what the Myth/Soldiery gear is.

[Ganvire]

I'm still surprised that there are people who legitimately think uneven stats make PVP exciting.

[Malakhim]

I'm really starting to think that a lot of people commenting here are coming from the perspective of not actually having played much PvP, because there's a lot of stuff that is either flat out wrong or hyperbole.

PvP even with Morale gear at lvl.50 is STILL very much skill-based. If you don't know what you're doing, morale gear isn't going to help you. As Nalien points out, all it does is give you a slight edge. You still need to know how to move, how to attack, which abilities to use in which order, how to set up a defensive/offensive strategy, etc.

Many of you seem to think that Morale being null is going to help you win. It will not. What good is hitting or guarding at a slightly higher percentage gonna be if the opposing team's BLM knows how to effectively lay down a screen of sleeps, or if the tank keeps the healer stunned/isolated and the rest of the team blitzes against the opposing ranged DPS? Morale is a tool, but it doesn't set the pace of the game. The players do. I'll be honest. In the hands of a person who knows the ins and outs of a PvP match, Morale can be pretty beastly, but if the person doesn't know what the hell he/she is doing(like a lot of win traders who just want glamour gear), all morale does is make a slightly more beefy target. And I say this as a rank 24 MNK who has decimated rank 40 PLDs in full rank 30 - 40 gear. Have any of you actually looked at the minute increases you get in different sets of gear anyway?

Finally, as Nalien points out, PvP as another game type in FFXIV adds another progression chain for the people who for whatever reason don't want to/can't easily get high-level PvE groups going. It adds an extra layer to the game's appeal, and frankly I can't see why anyone would be opposed to that.

[Nalien]

I'm still surprised that there are people who legitimately think uneven stats make PVP exciting.

That's OK, I'm still surprised that there are people who legitimately think Morale would be the reason they'll get curb stomped in Frontlines.

I look forward to 2.3, where all the people will enter Frontlines, get completely owned because they don't know what they're doing, then proceed never to do it again. All because SE refuses to give PvP a proper sense of progression. If it was wise to at least do Wolves' Den to obtain some i70 gear before hand, at least newbs would get a sense of how to PvP before jumping into Frontlines and damning it the moment they lose.

In fact, the majority of this thread is exactly why the should lock Frontlines behind some form of rank requirement, be it a strait up rank requirement or simply obtaining Morale first. People who claim to want to do Frontlines "for fun" seem to have zero understanding of PvP. Once they do it "for fun", they're not going to do it again, because losing isn't fun. At least if you have to put a few rounds of Wolves' Den in first, people can get a feel for PvP before throwing themselves into Frontlines.

[Malakhim]

...Once they do it "for fun", they're not going to do it again, because losing isn't fun. At least if you have to put a few rounds of Wolves' Den in first, people can get a feel for PvP before throwing themselves into Frontlines.

Pretty much this. The people who are only slightly interested in PvP are going to get stomped. They're going to rage about it in their FC, and then proceed to never do it again. The only people who will probably stick with it are the ones who have been having a blast progressing through PvP as is. And it won't be because of any gear bonus this time if the translation is accurate and morale will play absolutely no part. It's because there will ALWAYS be more skilled players than you(plural) or I.

So please, Yoshi P and dev team. Throw us a bone here. It'd be great if we could have a dev comment on this thread(or any thread in the PvP forum) when they are able to talk about more details to really tell us what's what.

[Nalien]

Really? You can identify glamoured PvP gear from a distance? Yeah, no....

Ohhh, you never thought to glamour your gear to look PvE or lower lvl PvP? Now who is ignorant?

Still you, since Glamours don't work in PvP.

Your view is simply the tantrum of a child---I'll prove it

PvP'ers whining that they need a stat for incentive to play PvP. How many PvE'ers will quit playing without a separate stat for them?

PvE doesn't need a separate stat, ALL the other stats are PvE stats. If gear had no stats, do you still think people would bother progressing? You really think a gear treadmill MMO would work when the gear treadmill is solely vanity?

Look, dude. It's OK to admit you were wrong. You seemingly don't know anything about PvP, do you really think you should; A) Be posting in a PvP thread, and B) Be calling someone a child just because they actually know what they're talking about? You're really not helping your case by constantly showing you know nothing about PvP, leave it for the people who know about PvP to try and convince me I'm wrong.

EDIT: Yay, daily post limit reached!

If you want morale on PvP gear, then are you willing to make PvP gear only useable in PvP? You know, so that you have to progress through PvE content the same way you expect PvE'ers to progress through PvP? Because I want to know about your PvE progress when you step into a dungeon or coil with me...

PvE gear isn't excluded from PvP, Morale just means it's not encouraged. Likewise, since PvP gear has Morale on it, it's not encouraged for PvE; it's missing a useful stat.

If someone uses PvP gear in PvE, they'll replace it with PvE gear when they can, because PvE gear is better. The same should hold true in PvP; you can use PvE gear, but once you can get some PvP gear, you should use that, because it's better. Both have their own progression.

You're welcome to not do Coil with someone in PvP gear though. I mean, someone who's done Brayflox back to back to obtain Tomestones is bound to have more experience at Coil.

I don't know anything about your playing, I am speaking from experience in dealing with other PvP'ers.

PvE stats ARE PvP stats...they don't stop functioning in PvP, so they aren't exclusively PvE stats.

And I never said that soldiery gear shows skill. Just like i90 myth gear doesn't---just like having all 50's doesn't.

So... What's your point?

PvP gear should stop working in PvE because, just like 90% of PvE gear, it doesn't show how good you are at PvE?

I want Morale on PvP gear, because that gives PvP progression. They could work it either way, they could have made a PvE stat that doesn't work in PvP and makes PvP gear more appealing, but they didn't because, like someone stated earlier, PvP is more of an afterthought in this game. It's 90% PvE, 10% PvP. It makes more sense for PvP to get the unique stat with that in mind, you need to differentiate PvP from PvE, so you give PvP its own stat. Since that stat does nothing in PvE, PvP gear isn't something you'd even want to use in PvE.

Would it help you if I put all my coil gear back on? On this job? On all the other jobs I have to 50? Sure, it won't validate skill even then, but it will invalidate you talking about ilvl 100 while your avatar is decked out in i90 myth gear.

Ahhh... Now I see.... Ad Hominem...

So, what's your game plan here? Say I can't talk about iLv100 unless I equip some, because I said you can't talk about PvP because you've frequently displayed a gross lack of understanding of this games PvP? Classy.

[Malakhim]

I'm really starting to think that a lot of people commenting here are coming from the perspective of not actually having played much PvP, because there's a lot of stuff that is either flat out wrong or hyperbole.

Really? You can identify glamoured PvP gear from a distance? Yeah, no....

Ohhh, you never thought to glamour your gear to look PvE or lower lvl PvP? Now who is ignorant?

I rest my case.