first it was crafting and gathers, now it pvpers...

[NinjaDante]

The problem with equalized gear is simple, there's no reason for me to really do Frontlines. I like gearing up and getting stronger, it's why I play mmos more than single player games lately. Since my weekly progression in pve is limited by lockouts, and I always end up with very little to do by the end of a patch's life, I was hoping this would be my long-term time sink.

I was really looking forward to Frontlines as a long lasting and fun way to grind and gear up for pvp and thus be competitive by having better gear. This just punishes people who actually enjoy pvp and want to put time in to it and benefits only people who might do just a few matches a week and who have no dedication to it.

It's like if I was given a super robotic suit to play basketball with NBA players. Would that be fair to them? no because they trained hard to get where they are and it removes a majority of the competitiveness from the game.

[Vahlnir]

The problem with equalized gear is simple, there's no reason for me to really do Frontlines.

It's like if I was given a super robotic suit to play basketball with NBA players. Would that be fair to them? no because they trained hard to get where they are and it removes a majority of the competitiveness from the game.

We don't even know the rewards for doing Frontlines (a horse mount is likely one of them though by the looks of it) so there may be a reason or 2....or 3 that you or I aren't aware of yet to participate. Playing for fun would be good enough for me though I do like incentives. You enjoy the gear aspect of PvP and I respect that. To me there's nothing wrong with making something for the masses, and who knows what the future will bring for the Wolve's Den? As to your whole NBA...whatever you wanna call it, not really sure how this is even relative...

[NinjaDante]

Are you really comparing Morale to a NBA player playing in an exoskeleton? Really?!

Do you people have any idea what Morale actually does?

Yes I do know what Morale does, it increases overall defense and offense, which is why my analogy works correctly. NBA players train and condition their bodies most of their life to be able to play the way they do, there is a lot more than just skill involved in professional sports, and it's part of why steroids are banned, because work and effort over time should have meaning and pay off.

[Amberion]

I have to wonder how many have played a MMORPG before.

Content that is just "for fun", ends up hardly used after awhile. People play other genres for things like that.

As for the whole PVP stat thing.

It's because PVP gear should not be as good as PVE gear in PVE content, and the other way around.

[Nalien]

Yes I do know what Morale does, it increases overall defense and offense, which is why my analogy works correctly. It's because NBA players train and condition their bodies most of their life to be able to play the way they do, there is a lot more than just skill involved in professional sports, and it's part of why steroids are banned, because work and effort over time has meaning and pays off.

Morale, in no way whatsoever, makes you unbeatable though. Morale actually adds a sense of competitiveness to PvP. If you're all equal, then there is absolutely no sense of "These guys are better than us", there are no triumphant underdog stories in PvP.

The bonus Morale provides, in no sense, makes it impossible for new players to succeed. All it does is provide a reason for players to continue to participate in PvP; you go obtain Morale gear so that you have an edge, not a guaranteed shot at victory. Again, without people continuing to participate in PvP for a gaol (in this case, Morale gear), queues are going to be horrible once the initial hype wears off.

To continue your NBA analogy; if someone completely green to Basketball jumped in, they would not have an advantage, would they? They would be at a incredible disadvantage. Why is it then, that everyone who hasn't touched PvP and wants to do Frontlines, expects to go in on a level playing field? If you enjoy Frontlines, become an active member of the PvP community and work for the gear. If you just want to enter "for fun"... Winning is the only way you can have fun? Being beaten by people who've put work into their PvP gear is somehow unfair?

[Massterchef]

Its actually a step in the right direction, new content, new grind.

You grinded to max rank/gear in wolf dens and can still use that advantage if you choose to participate in it, you shouldn't expect to be maxed or for them to add another i110 set to further overwhelm the competition in different content.

I didn't like wolf dens much at all and didn't participate past rank 20~ on it, and wouldn't be looking forward to doing fronlines if I had to deal with a large volume of i95+ players on day 1.

Kudos to SE if that is correctly translated.

[NinjaDante]

Morale, in no way whatsoever, makes you unbeatable though. Morale actually adds a sense of competitiveness to PvP. If you're all equal, then there is absolutely no sense of "These guys are better than us", there are no triumphant underdog stories in PvP.

The bonus Morale provides, in no sense, makes it impossible for new players to succeed. All it does is provide a reason for players to continue to participate in PvP; you go obtain Morale gear so that you have an edge, not a guaranteed shot at victory. Again, without people continuing to participate in PvP for a gaol (in this case, Morale gear), queues are going to be horrible once the initial hype wears off.

You seem to misunderstand me, I LIKE Morale, I'm saying by equalizing away everyone's stats and removing morale, it is removing a reason to spend any time on frontlines. I'm saying by doing this is like giving the casual players the exoskeleton in a basketball game to play with professionals(aka players who have devoted time and gotten pvp gear)

[Ganvire]

So has everyone forgotten how Guild Wars 2 levels out the PVP playing field or do we all really think that stats actually make PVP fun? (Hint: they don't lol.)

[ispano]

If you're all equal, then there is absolutely no sense of "These guys are better than us", there are no triumphant underdog stories in PvP.

wat? Equality in gear means what shines through is the better group of players. If you had two groups of equally skilled players, the ones with the better "pvp gear" would have a clear advantage. So, i'm sorry, if your gear could not be better than the other groups, how you play as a person and as a group would be important in winning. ie better players will win against worse ones, without having gear to rely on.

[Nalien]

wat? Equality in gear means what shines through is the better group of players. If you had two groups of equally skilled players, the ones with the better "pvp gear" would have a clear advantage. So, i'm sorry, if your gear could not be better than the other groups, how you play as a person and as a group would be important in winning. ie better players will win against worse ones, without having gear to rely on.

Again, I've been in plenty of matches where my opponents had better Morale then my group. Morale is not such a powerful stat that it determines who wins and loses. If you go in knowing they have better gear, you simply play differently to win.

Groups are never going to be exactly equal in skill, especially in Frontlines where there's potentially 24 of you. If Morale was allowed in Frontlines, then it's just reason for you to play smart. You can identify Morale from a distance based on their gear, you cannot do the same with skill. If you know your enemy has high Morale, you just deal with them in a different manner, rather than everyone in Frontlines being the same and being treated the same. One is a zerg, the other has forethought involved.