NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Reynhart]

with the exception of thief specific abilities (steal, treasure hunter)

Could you quote the part where that was said ?

And remind that Treasure Hunter is a trait, and that jobs don't have traits.

[Iriadysa]

By your explanation, MNK/NIN should have been a tank.
Enmity generating ability : Boost (Check)
Mitigation skills : B+ Evasion, A- Guard, Utsusemi from /NIN (Check)

I wonder why we haven't seen that more

All jobs were capable of a limited ability to tank once they were able to utilise Utsusemi: Ni in addition to Ichi, however, they'd not last too long because they lacked the inherent defensive skills of Evasion/Parry at a satisfactory level in addition to having gear (unless they chose to have an evasion set) that supported that role. Ninja gear in general contained Evasion/Parry/Enmity bonuses and the later gear also added +1 shadow on Ichi and Ni casts yielding 4 and 5 shadows respectively as opposed to the 3 and 4 originally (3 for Ni if subbed by any other job).

Additionally, you're conveniently forgetting the original point of those defensive abilities have to be backed up by solid Enmity generation where Monk, Corsair, and Puppermaster fall short. I'll give you Thief because people have successfully used it to tank content such as mini-bosses in Sky with full evasion sets but it generally lacks the gear to support such a role without sacrificing it's primary DD role.

Neither of you seem to have any clue of what you are talking about, so let me give you a hand here. Note that I'm talking about lv75 content before Abyssea. I left XI before it.

MNK was a tank. Did none of you ever do low man Salvage? I can't remember taking a NIN or a PLD for anything at all, it was good MNK tank all the way. You could easily make MNK tank other relevant content if the MNK knew how. Low man tier 1 jailers in Sea, Limbus, anything in sky, etc. Not only MNK was a tank, but SAM/NIN count tank just as well, if not better.

Once you had utsusemi, the only requirement for tank was enmity generation. Proof of this is that MNK tanking was done with the counter stance ability up, which droped your defense to pretty much nothing and yet it was still a fair trade because you could counter while casting utsusemi. Enmity generation for MNK and SAM was done through sheer damage, so you needed to be well geared for damage there. If for some reason enmity was a problem, a good THF would remedy this easily with Trick Attack.

On another note, RDM was an incredibly good tank (specially if you had a way to secure enmity on it), much better than a NIN.

Utsusemi and enmity became synonymous with tanking, not NIN.

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On topic:

Yay, NIN is coming relatively soon, could be fun.

THF, as designed in FFXI, is a really interesting concept. It's an enmity juggler without being a tank, which opens up a lot of alternatives when approaching content. However, due to how easy and simplified enmity is in FFXIV and the availability of skills like Provoke to rapidly switch enmity, XI's THF concept seems to be redundant for FFXIV and as such it would just end up being a reskinned NIN.

Without special mechanics to the job there's just no place for it in this game.

If it ever actually happens, I'll expect it to be a support DD/debuffer of some kind and if so, we won't see it until proper support jobs are introduced. Assuming Yoshida and Co. are still going to do that.

[Reynhart]

Steal.
Buff/Stats Stealing.
Enmity management.

It could effectively be exactly the same as Bard; a semi-support Job.
[...]
Heck, just make it another DPS, why can't one Class have two Jobs that fill the same role? Make it so Steal is used on party members; Dragoon just used Blood for Blood? I'll Steal (though really copy) that, basically a mix between Mime and Thief.

Last time I checked, Bard is still considered a DPS. And people complain about that, by the way

And, sorry, but two DPS with 75% of their skills shared would be pretty much the same jobs ingame.
I don't see what's so important in "Thief" that you would accept something totally different from what it was in previous installment just for the sake of having the name.

[Nalien]

I don't see what's so important in "Thief" that you would accept something totally different from what it was in previous installment just for the sake of having the name.

You're aware part of the reason XIV got a complete rebuild was the lack of classic Final Fantasy Jobs, right? Literally the first thing they planned to do with XIV was reintroduce classic Jobs. Thief is a classic Job.

Going; "We need to add classic Jobs, even if it makes Classes completely redundant", and then follow it up with "This classic Job isn't coming, pretend this Class is the Job (even though Classes are trash post 30)", is pretty contradictory.

[Tiggy]

Common arguments against thief.

- A city wouldn't support a thieves guild?
I dunno how about a city of pirates?

- The class is rogue so thief won't appear because they are no longer thieves?
You mean like how you're one of like 4 BLM in existence, you're one of 4 WHM's, one of 2 War's, etc. One "old school thief with knowledge of nearly lost skills" isn't a far flung idea based on existing job story lines.

I'm sure I missed others but the point is they could easily still add thief regardless of what BS Yoshi said.

[Danko]

Ok, now for something else.
Let's assume they didn't say "It's like a Thief", "you'll have the feeling than they came from thieves"...

What would a THF job offer ? Rogue is a DPS class, NIN is a DPS job. You want another DPS job from the same class ?

Thief is generally a dps job, yes. But it has always been a job in that offers unique utility and fun mechanics throughout the entire FF franchise.

I suspect people aren't asking for Thief because they think the game needs another dps. It's because they want to steal things, pick locks, increase drop rates or some other fun gimmick that is tied to this iconic Final Fantasy job. The Thief job is such a unique and beloved staple in the series that it really just seems....wrong to me if it's not going to be in this game.

I, personally, would have much rather had ROG>THF than ROG>NIN for this patch. But I'm a person that's always identified with Thief characters and abilities throughout the franchise. I don't care about Ninja's at all.

[Grizzlebeard]

Stuff

While you're indeed correct about Monk tanking you're referring to a particular point in the game's life. Prior to that small blip Paladin and Ninja were the only viable tanks for endgame content and while both of those classes lost the limelight in WotG to some extent it was once again reprised in Abyssea where Monks didn't tank for squat. Additionally, Dancers were introduced and they were awesome across most content, ridiculously so.

[Danko]

While you're indeed correct about Monk tanking you're referring to a particular point in the game's life. Prior to that small blip Paladin and Ninja were the only viable tanks for endgame content and while both of those classes lost the limelight in WotG to some extent it was once again reprised in Abyssea where Monks didn't tank for squat. Additionally, Dancers were introduced and they were awesome across most content, ridiculously so.

MNKs were the primary tanks in Abyssea. Thieves too. Paladins didn't get invited.

Ninja's were used for procs only, so they would tank sometimes in lowman groups, but it was for procs, not because they were desired tanks.

But abyssea didn't have any content that *required* a tank. DPS hopped up on atma could hold hate better and kill faster than any tanks and there was nothing that could kill them with WHMs hopped up on atmas.

[Reynhart]

MNK was a tank. Did none of you ever do low man Salvage?

Sorry, but that is totally irrevelant...MNK tanked in salvage because they were the only ones able to generate enough enmity by damage without a proper weapon equipped.

Once you unlocked your skill and gear, it's back to the old tank jobs.

[Danko]

Sorry, but that is totally irrevelant...MNK tanked in salvage because they were the only ones able to generate enough enmity by damage without a proper weapon equipped.

Once you unlocked your skill and gear, it's back to the old tank jobs.

I can't think of a good reason to bring a PLD or NIN to salvage.