NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Nalien]

I like how you think this 'CHM/THF idea will make the 'Thief people' happy.

I don't think it'll make people happy. I'm on the internet, nothing will ever make people happy.

Well, Chemist/Thief as Thief would make Rikku fans happy, I'm sure.

[Jandor]

I don't think it'll make people happy. I'm on the internet, nothing will ever make people happy.

Well, Chemist/Thief as Thief would make Rikku fans happy, I'm sure.

Yep, I'd love a Rikku style Thief job .

[Gilraen]

Yeah, I love your idea with the Chemist (though I'd keep it called Chemist as that sounds nice), but people really wanted their Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, Treasure Hunter, Flee (we have Flee already, it's called Sprint, and it's faster than Swiftsong and almost as fast as a mount) Thieves with their iconic green vest-and-tubetop AF. And they will keep demanding it despite the fact that Yoshida has been trying to avoid direct inspirations from XI this entire time. Not even Tanaka wanted to draw that heavily from XI.

[Nalien]

Yeah, I love your idea with the Chemist (though I'd keep it called Chemist as that sounds nice), but people really wanted their Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, Treasure Hunter, Flee (we have Flee already, it's called Sprint, and it's faster than Swiftsong and almost as fast as a mount) Thieves with their iconic green vest-and-tubetop AF. And they will keep demanding it despite the fact that Yoshida has been trying to avoid direct inspirations from XI this entire time. Not even Tanaka wanted to draw that heavily from XI.

The thing is, and I'm sure I've posted this before, one of the main complaints XIV 1.0 got was a lack of Final Fantasy Jobs. So much so that that was one of the first things Yoshida addressed. The classic Final Fantasy Jobs are important to the fans, Yoshida has admitted that much, and implemented them in a fairly nonsensical way, keeping Classes and making them almost completely redundant post-30. What he is now doing with Thief seems to contradict all that, one of the most iconic Jobs either ruled out completely, or just renamed and tossed aside at Lv30? Isn't that exactly what a large amount of people disliked about the Class system in 1.0? We didn't get White Mage and Black Mage then, we got Thaumaturge and Conjurer. A lot of people liked the openness of that system, but a lot more were complaining that Final Fantasy XIV didn't have Final Fantasy Jobs.

I don't even care about Thief, I wanted Ninja and I've got it, I just find it extremely odd that after going out of his way to implement classic Jobs into XIV, Yoshida is now forsaking one of the most classic Jobs. It's not even that Thief wont work in XIV, it will, it just requires a bit of imagination and taking some liberty with the Job itself (See: Bard).

[Gilraen]

The thing is... tossed aside at Lv30?

And then there's this. Not one class is tossed aside at level 30. Using your Bard example, without the archer's foundation the Bard would just be three songs, a song buff and an AoE attack. Classes aren't tossed aside, they are buffed by the equipping of the Job stones because that's all the Jobs are, special equipment that grant enhanced stats and expanded abilities at the cost of the class' multi-classing. Ninja will be no different, it's nothing without rogue providing a foundation.

[Nalien]

And then there's this. Not one class is tossed aside at level 30. Using your Bard example, without the archer's foundation the Bard would just be three songs, a song buff and an AoE attack. Classes aren't tossed aside, they are buffed by the equipping of the Job stones because that's all the Jobs are, special equipment that grant enhanced stats and expanded abilities at the cost of the class' multi-classing. Ninja will be no different, it's nothing without rogue providing a foundation.

How often do you see Archers in instances after 30? What about Gladiators, or Lancers? PvP is literally the only place Classes can shine, and even then that's just Gladiator and Marauder.

Classes may as well be their Jobs once you hit 30, Rouge and Ninja should be no different. Rouge could be a proxy for Thief, but if you're playing Ninja, you certainly aren't playing Thief. Last I checked Thief didn't do crazy hand signs and spit ice, at least.

So, Thief either is Rouge, and it's gone after 30, or Thief is a Job at some point. For it not to happen at all just contradicts the implementation of Jobs at all.

[LoLo]

How often do you see Archers in instances after 30? What about Gladiators, or Lancers? PvP is literally the only place Classes can shine, and even then that's just Gladiator and Marauder.

Classes may as well be their Jobs once you hit 30, Rouge and Ninja should be no different. Rouge could be a proxy for Thief, but if you're playing Ninja, you certainly aren't playing Thief. Last I checked Thief didn't do crazy hand signs and spit ice, at least.

So, Thief either is Rouge, and it's gone after 30, or Thief is a Job at some point. For it not to happen at all just contradicts the implementation of Jobs at all.

I have been trying to explain this thank you.

I liked how you mentioned Yoshi P saying he would bring back classic Final Fantasy Jobs but is now go back on his word to the community if he reverts Thief only to a class named Rogue or doesn't add Thief at all.

I wanted to add that I do not see any harm in including a Thief Job is this game that stems from Rogue. A name change of Rogue class to Thief class will also be problematic and not what people who are interested in playing a Thief.

Yes, it would harm and affect others play styles, because hey look, even more dps jobs we dont need. I said having a different role- tank or healer, would be far more beneficial for everyone. DPS queues are already insane, and there are never enough tanks or healers. ...................................................

I can understand having a job you really love and want added to the game. Maybe Im biased because I was never that big a fan of thief
Edit: Also, because you keep insisting you dont play a class past 30. Yes. You do.

Ninja addition to this game will not be the last DPS job to be added. People who want to play tank will still main a tank job. The people who already play a DPS job will still main a DPS job and that is what Ninja and any other additional DPS job in the future will be for. You can not make people who do not want to main a Tank or Healer play them by adding additional tank and healing options. In all MMO's there are more DPS players than healers and tanks.

I can't understand your bias or against Thief Job being in this game. There are possible future classes and jobs that I don't want to play but I don't mind it being released.

[Nalien]

I have been trying to explain this very concept, but at this point the people who are replying to me refused to try and understand this.

I'm really surprised at the "hate" Thief is getting here, I can understand people having concerns about it being added, but quite a few people just seem to out right reject the very concept of it getting added.

I know I keep coming back to Bard, but it's the perfect example. Plenty of people suggest Ranger should come off Archer, when they do people don't claim that "Bard is just Ranger with Songs", or that Archer is already Ranger. They have concerns about how it would be added, usually leading to people suggesting Bard be changed to be more Bard, but they don't out right reject the idea. Rouge, Ninja and Thief is almost exactly the same, with Ninja being close to Bard from what I've read;

Ninjas will incorporate the abilities of rogues and will also have Ninjutsu and hand gestures. The gestures will be combined in different ways and will result in different Ninjutsu abilities.

That makes it sound like Ninja will have a deceptively large number of Job abilities, just like Summoner and Scholar. Rather than them being tied to pets though, they'll be through combinations. That's the sort of thing they should have done with Bard to give it more than three bloody songs (how am I still mad about that?). It allows the Job to be very distinctive from the Class.

That alone can make Ninja feel very distinct from Rouge, and thus Thief which would just be the natural progression of Rouge, just like Ranger would be the natural progression of Archer.

I think nin will share with mnk. Nin could be str and if SE adds thief to rogue then thf could be dex(brd) D;

I'd hope Ninja has something similar to Clerics Stance; converts STR into INT. The Rouge/Melee moves use STR, when you want to throw down some Ninjutsu, you switch your STR to INT.

[Monsalvato]

[cut]
Ninja will be no different, it's nothing without rogue providing a foundation.

I agree with this, but I See Nalien's point too.
What you're talking off Gilraen doesn't require the duality of class + job.
You could achieve the same results if classes didn't exist and everything was imbued into jobs.

Yoshi-P had 2 roads in front of him:
1) Completely reform class actions and change their names into more iconic ones (Gladiator into Paladin etc)
2) Keep classes, add jobs as "variations" and make so both Classes and Jobs have a purpose and players will switch to one or another accordingly.

He chose option 2, but in the end he failed to make class still useful.
Atm they're just a remnant of an old game (Tanaka's original FFXIV) and feel a bit out of place into the current game (except for the story, loved it for all classes and jobs)


So yes, I understand what you're saying and I agree, but Nalien's got a point too.

[Rachoco]

rikku? uve got to be joking with me.... , a good example of thief would be Tantalus Theater Troupe.