Battle Reform: Enmity (07/06/2011)

[northernsky]

@Cap if its pointless guess work, they should list off its weaknesses (element and damage type) and what abilitys it can do and when they will do them.....because thats all "guesswork".

Enmity is dynamic and evolves at every single action taken. What you refer at is more like a bestiary, and actually there some threads asking for it, and the devs replied that they might very well implement one with time.

[Capita]

You can have adventure without challenge, challenge without adventure or challenge with adventure.. but i see knowing the level of every last mob less of a challenge (no need to figure out what level it is because its given to you) as well as less of an adventure (adventure includes learning and discovering.. but there is less to discover when you already know what level it is and if it will aggro). it's the fear factor in not know. People fear what they don't know and I like scary shit. But i guess its clear I like to adventure and discover where as you like to just have the answer so you can get through your task quicker.

Well, I understand what you mean about the adventure aspect. Believe me, when I had more time devoted to playing, I loved the fact that we had to learn everything with absolutely no guides to help. It was fun to pioneer, and it was great being one of the first NA players to kill Shadow Lord, or to obtain full AF.

But even XI had elements that helped players determine which mobs they could realistically fight. Most maps were organized by level (or at least the maps where you'd go to grind with your party), which is something we don't have the benefit of in XIV. In XIV, we have R14 mobs mixed in with R30 ones. I'm sure before the level indication, we've all attacked a random R22 Aldgoat and killed it fairly easily, and went on to attack an identical-looking R29 Aldgoat and found ourselves facedown and hitting Return. That's not fun at all. It may be a challenge to try and guess which one of those two IDENTICAL Aldgoats standing next to each other is R22 and which one is R29, but it's not a fun game mechanic by any means.

XI also had vague, but useful level indicators. A map full of only IT's is probably way too high for your group, while a map with a few T's scattered about is probably closer to your level and doable. It wasn't a complete estimation, which is why it worked as a challenging, yet fun way of determining whether you could fight them or not.

The level indicator works for the kind of maps we're dealing with in XIV. The enmity system is too early to say, but like I said, if it allows the Devs to come up with much more engaging and complicated fight mechanics outside of tank-n-spank "stand-and-wait-till-my-enmity-goes-down" fights, I'm all for it.

[Ashthra]

A blinking red light, huh?

I'm not necessarily against a little hate indicator, but a blinking red light?

Also, for the people saying it's OMFGRUININGTHEGAAAME, turn off your UI. Congratulations, now you have to guess everything! Hardcore.

[Morticous]

Well, I understand what you mean about the adventure aspect. Believe me, when I had more time devoted to playing, I loved the fact that we had to learn everything with absolutely no guides to help. It was fun to pioneer, and it was great being one of the first NA players to kill Shadow Lord, or to obtain full AF.

But even XI had elements that helped players determine which mobs they could realistically fight. Most maps were organized by level (or at least the maps where you'd go to grind with your party), which is something we don't have the benefit of in XIV. In XIV, we have R14 mobs mixed in with R30 ones. I'm sure before the level indication, we've all attacked a random R22 Aldgoat and killed it fairly easily, and went on to attack an identical-looking R29 Aldgoat and found ourselves facedown and hitting Return. That's not fun at all. It may be a challenge to try and guess which one of those two IDENTICAL Aldgoats standing next to each other is R22 and which one is R29, but it's not a fun game mechanic by any means.

XI also had vague, but useful level indicators. A map full of only IT's is probably way too high for your group, while a map with a few T's scattered about is probably closer to your level and doable. It wasn't a complete estimation, which is why it worked as a challenging, yet fun way of determining whether you could fight them or not.

The level indicator works for the kind of maps we're dealing with in XIV. The enmity system is too early to say, but like I said, if it allows the Devs to come up with much more engaging and complicated fight mechanics outside of tank-n-spank "stand-and-wait-till-my-enmity-goes-down" fights, I'm all for it.

I guess i just see a flaw in the new game then that is being poorly remedied by handing me the levels and showing aggro indicators. I'm personally not as bothered by the enmity bar thing whatever it is, im more wondering when am I going to stop being force fed the answers. They could be more creative in showing the difference between an easier algoat or a harder one by making its horns larger or something.. anything but simply handing over the level. I'm 100% fine with knowing the answer after I discover it but I do not want to be handed the answer.

Yes Please - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nster-Bestiary

[northernsky]

I guess i just see a flaw in the new game then that is being poorly remedied by handing me the levels and showing aggro indicators. I'm personally not as bothered by the enmity bar thing whatever it is, im more wondering when am I going to stop being force fed the answers. They could be more creative in showing the difference between an easier algoat or a harder one by making its horns larger or something.. anything but simply handing over the level. I'm 100% fine with knowing the answer after I discover it but I do not want to be handed the answer.

Yes Please - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nster-Bestiary

This is a very good point. Bestiary is an idea, dark map at first visit is another, but how do you manage a dynamic feature like enmity?

Someone in this thread proposed having to quest for enmity detection traits with several tiers of sensitivity. This could partly take away the feeling of just having it thrown to you I guess

[Morticous]

This is a very good point. Bestiary is an idea, dark map at first visit is another, but how do you manage a dynamic feature like enmity?

Someone in this thread proposed having to quest for enmity detection traits with several tiers of sensitivity. This could partly take away the feeling of just having it thrown to you I guess

Questing for it as a special feature is actually very interesting to me. That puts some adventure behind it. Makes you work for the answers! It's like learning how to use the force!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kailok]

10 bucks says if someone created a Windower for FFXIV, and released a Threat Indicator addon, everyone would find their way to the URL to install it without so much as a peep.

[Morticous]

10 bucks says if someone created a Windower for FFXIV, and released a Threat Indicator addon, everyone would find their way to the URL to install it without so much as a peep.

I never used any of that bs in FFXI.

[Kailok]

I never used any of that bs in FFXI.

That's what everyone says to make sure the devs don't ban-hammer their faces in. It's okay, I understand.

[Morticous]

That's what everyone says to make sure the devs don't ban-hammer their faces in. It's okay, I understand.

Well I guess you could say that except I wouldn't have said anything if that's what I was worried about. :P