I don't understand...

[Tiggy]

I've been helped by plenty of people and I've helped plenty of players. I the only problems I have on a regular basis (three times a week) are elitist speed runner trying to for speed runs on people that are not ready, whatever the dungeon. There are many ways to help other players, but the one thing that can help most to reset the expectation so that people understand that speed running is a nice bonus but not a must have. This way it can be more relaxed and people will have less drama. And there will be no need to nitpick over other people rotations and such.

At what point in this ENTIRE thread did I EVER act like I was forcing speed runs on people? At what point have I EVER acted that way? Please. Illustrate for me. For as far as I can tell all I've asked for in this entire thread was moderation from BOTH sides. Yet here you are. Constantly assuming I'm trying to force speed runs or something. Can you not accept for five seconds that I'm NOT talking about some a-hole player trying to force a speed run? Can you try to accept my words for what I'm actually saying instead of coloring it with your assumptions of who I am and what I do?

Maybe one day when they allow you to punch through the internet you can get your point across to all those bad playing the game by force who are hurting you since you wont do anything productive from your end outside of barking orders.

This is a good illustration of the problem with this thread. Despite actually giving an example earlier in this thread of a way to give advice while being respectful the assumption is still that we are "barking" orders. Words that we say don't get through because they instantly become colored with biased assumptions. "When they said "tips" they must mean they are just shouting at that player." It's these kinds of assumptions that make this entire conversation break down. There is no middle ground. No possible way to do it better and kinder. None at all. Anything AT ALL is too much.

These kind of responses leave ZERO room for any discussion because to these people it's their way or the high way. You can't possibly have an argument or a better way because if it isn't their way your too elite and just barking orders.

[Foo01]

At what point in this ENTIRE thread did I EVER act like I was forcing speed runs on people? At what point have I EVER acted that way?

I never said you were. But we got stuff like "militan casuals" What? They don't want to do speed runs, they can't do speed runs and they are upset about it so they are militant casuals? So stuff like this is clearly irresponsible:

.... "Telling people how to play is elitist, kicking them is elitist, leaving is elitist. Only if you remain silent and wipe for all eternity will you not be considered elitist." ....(

People rage quitting (a.k.a leave) because other can not speed run is elitist. People kicking the lesser geared because they can't speed run is elitist. And no one demands that people forever remain silent, just don't go off berating others because they are inexperienced or undergeared.

[Tiggy]

I never said you were. But we got stuff like "militan casuals" What? They don't want to do speed runs, they can't do speed runs and they are upset about it so they are militant casuals? So stuff like this is clearly irresponsible:



People rage quitting (a.k.a leave) because other can not speed run is elitist. People kicking the lesser geared because they can speed run is elitist. And no one demands that people forever remain silent, just don't go off berating others because they are inexperienced or undergeared.

and for that we are in complete agreement. The problem is you won't even come to a moderate center and agree that it's even possible to help people in a nice way. At all. It's your way or nothing at all. Help people through wiping or shut your mouth. That's all I keep hearing from you.

[Foo01]

and for that we are in complete agreement. The problem is you won't even come to a moderate center and agree that it's even possible to help people in a nice way. At all. It's your way or nothing at all. Help people through wiping or shut your mouth. That's all I keep hearing from you.

How about this?. There exist nice ways to give advice, but it won't work all the time and it will only be received as nice only some of the time. I know of no surefire way to make advice seem nice all the time to everyone. It is a case by case situation. And I will even grant there exist a solution to give advice and it be well received 100% of the time, but no one has found it yet.

----------

By SV how many dungeons must this tank have done? If they don't have the most basic aspect of being a tank down by that point then I would say giving up tanking is indeed good for everyone. Not everyone is cut out to tank.

Theorectically speaking, if this is someone's alt it could be literally 0. But say they did every dungeon up to SV once, that is like 8 dungeons at most (sastasha, tam-tara, copperbell, halatali, totorak, haukke, brayflox, cutters, and qarn right? I must be missing a few..) So it is no surprise they are as green as they get.

And we all know how people are bored of sastasha, tam-tara, toto-rak on the DR and avoid cutters and qarn, so if it is an alt, it might be like 4 dungeons?

[Gormogon]

snip

Would be easier if elitists realized the angle they are using to approach the issue of giving advice isn't working and should try approaching it from a different angle or perspective.

Taking Counseling Skills 101 or anything of the sort that would help as well.

[Tiggy]

Would be easier if elitists realized the angle they are using to approach to the issue of giving advice isn't working and should try approaching it from a different angle or perspective.

Not like people are taking Counseling Skills 101 or anything of the sort that would help.

What angle are you even letting people have when your entire point is "any advice is bad. Just shut up and finish the dungeon." You leave no angles open at all. You're entire position is dismissive of other peoples thoughts and opinions on the matter.

My perspective is simple. Saying nothing is just as destructive as being mean about it.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke

[Tiggy]

How about this. there exist nice ways to give advice, but it won't work all the time and it will only be received as nice only some of the time. I know of no surefire way to make advice seem nice all the time to everyone. It is a case by case situation.

Absolutely. I completely agree it won't work all of the time. Sometimes people just refuse assistance and you need to move on or find new methods. That doesn't mean never trying is the correct route either. That's why I said you've already admitted defeat earlier. You can't let it get you down so far that you only want to use indirect methods instead of words. I'll completely admit that those methods can achieve results, and honestly talking AND doing that is probably the best combination. I'll do accept that you understand what I'm trying to say though.

There is indeed no silver bullet, but ruling out options just because they can fail is just letting yourself be backed into a corner with fewer options. I can't stand the idea that not talking to people is the only solution that's ok. This is an MMO. This is a community. Let's talk to each other and help each other out.

We obviously don't share the same definition of polite.

I dunno. Let's try a dictionary instead of coming up with our own. Polite

po·lite adjective \pə-ˈlīt\
: having or showing good manners or respect for other people

: socially correct or proper
po·lit·erpo·lit·est

Full Definition of POLITE

1
a : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of advanced culture
b : marked by refined cultural interests and pursuits especially in arts and belles lettres
2
a : showing or characterized by correct social usage
b : marked by an appearance of consideration, tact, deference, or courtesy
c : marked by a lack of roughness or crudities <polite literature>



Yeah, pretty much what I expected.

[Kerberon]

I never said you were. But we got stuff like "militan casuals" What? They don't want to do speed runs, they can't do speed runs and they are upset about it so they are militant casuals? .

You twist things like a politician. I encourage you to run for office. Militantly casual has nothing to do with speed running. It has everything to do with you and Gormogon think that polite advice is elitist raging. You are the militant casual and it has nothing to do with speed running or speed of anything. Sorry get over yourself.

Oh and gormogon, I don't take your advice because doing something harmful is not good advice. Sorry but your advice will only speed the demise of this game, or any game.

[Gormogon]

polite advice

We obviously don't share the same definition of polite.

[Priya]

People rage quitting (a.k.a leave) because other can not speed run is elitist. People kicking the lesser geared because they can speed run is elitist. And no one demands that people forever remain silent, just don't go off berating others because they are inexperienced or undergeared.

You are a fantastic troll. Beautiful. /Tips fedora

Quick edit, Gorm is an amazing one, too. I like your work, sir. Hard to edit in a quote on phone, but counseling skills class is fabulous.