A friendly warning to SE: Do NOT turn FFXIV into an Asia Grinder!

[NefarioCall]

You can always ... like ... you know ... not do the Atma grind.
It's not essential to being able to play the game or anything...

[Sparky]

Firstly, it's not marketing speak... I was a user of our product and still am. I take my job and responsibility seriously. If I was in marketing, I probably would have mentioned synergy, "revolutionizing"... or some other catchy phrases.... I'm not in marketing... and for good reason =*(

Secondly, it means we moved from the waterfall methodology (sequential long term development) to agile, short iterative and responsive... it's what the previous poster was mentioning. Although I suspect this team is pretty agile.... they just seem to be either not getting and using feedback effectively, or are segmenting their developments and their changes are hitting targets, but there are significant segments that are not being addressed.

I understand what it means too, and I'm no expert. I just had to read and comprehend, which I wish more people would do on here instead of deriding people for knowing a little more then they do.

Waterfall - As in everything cascades from the top. Management sets the goals, and that cascades down through each tier of the company until the orders reach the shop floor. but once the message has been sent it's hard or impossible to send the "water" back up the falls. In short, the job can't be cancelled. It can only be finished - however long that may take. Feedback on progress rarely reaches the top tier management.

Agile - Each team subteam or individual is responsible for setting their own goals within context of their design brief. As long as they maintain communication with other teams, they can react to whatever they want as quickly as they need without going through the laborious task of trying too seek management approval. As long as the design brief is fulfilled, management don't care how it's done.

[ApolloGenX]

I understand what it means too, and I'm no expert. I just had to read and comprehend, which I wish more people would do on here instead of deriding people for knowing a little more then they do.

Yup, no worries. You have been completely civil and other than insinuating I might be one of those dirty marketing people =-P I don't think there has been any unpleasantness in our discourse. =-)

[Alipoprocks]

Blah, blah, blah, same boring arguments, blah, blah

[Blackcanary]

Grinding in a MMO. No way. What a surprise.

GOD LEARN TO READ WHAT OP WROTE NEAR THE END.

"I do not mind grinding per se. But I do mind it if it is used as an excuse for poor production values."

[Ravno]

I have no problem with old school mindless grind. I have done worst in older mmo, that's fine by me.
But i think FFXIV is defective by design :

It's a game that allow a player to make multiple class and that's great, i love to make alts.
Alts are important, it's something that can keep your customer active when they are bored with their main class.
But in a way, the mindless grind since the atma weapon is killing alts. There is no way i will do this quest for a secondary class.
SE should make a feature that allow to do this quest more quickly on alt. I'm not saying to give items for free to any reroll, but allow them to do this quest quicker when they already did it on an other class.

[peaches]

Even if somebody goes slowly with this, can you seriously say it's fun to be doing the same crappy dungeons every day for myth until you finally get your weapon? What's the point when you could just spend that time learning the second coils and get the allagan weapon, or even the Levi Ex weapon? Sure you can upgrade the relic, but what ever, the next upgrade is just going to be another massive grindfest. And this is coming from me, a person who LOVE to grind in most games.

FF7, I would grind out levels, materia levels, farm for stat upgrade items. FF8 I would grind until I got 100 of every spell for as many characters as I could, grind to level up my summons so they could learn their abilities. FF12, I would spend ages grinding out motes for both low level files and non low level ones. I'd grind until I got the insanely low drop rate armor near the start of the game that you don't normally have access to until well over midway. I'd grind for the Zodiac Shield, and the Spear which I think had something like a 0.1% chance to actually get.

But the Atma and subsequent Relic quests? Screw that.

[Sparky]

Opinions are like assholes. We all have them.

There are polarizing opinions on this, which of course we are entitled to share. But yes, it should be clear by now that there are people who can seriously say its fun. Why is it fun? Well maybe not the act of grinding itself, but dat feel when you finally get what you've been working for after all that grind! That alone makes it worthwhile to me. It's like... slaving away in that deadbeat job for years in order to get the dream promotion. You can't beat the euphoria of seeing your efforts finally come to something.


**Edit** Daily post limit reached.... bah! Can't add any more to this even if I wanted to.

[ApolloGenX]

Let's see. As a non-raider.. I can re-run content until I puke to get a weapon that will only be used in the content I just burned out on and never want to do again. (Which I did without this weapon)

As a raider, I can raid and get a better weapon.

What is the point?

[Alenore]

I have no problem with old school mindless grind. I have done worst in older mmo, that's fine by me.
But i think FFXIV is defective by design :

It's a game that allow a player to make multiple class and that's great, i love to make alts.
Alts are important, it's something that can keep your customer active when they are bored with their main class.
But in a way, the mindless grind since the atma weapon is killing alts. There is no way i will do this quest for a secondary class.
SE should make a feature that allow to do this quest more quickly on alt. I'm not saying to give items for free to any reroll, but allow them to do this quest quicker when they already did it on an other class.

And why exactly would you need a relic for your alt?

Relic are meant to be something you farm, for a long time. Your character personal weapon, something powerful he had early in his adventuring career and improved with time. You're investing a LOT of time in it, because that's what you like the most. If you REALLY enjoy being something else, nothing keeps you from making another relic. No one put a gun on your head to make it on your main char, too. You decided you wanted it because you liked your class enough to bear the farm
Now, if you play it occasionally, you could simply, I don't know... Get another easy-to-get weapon? Leviathan EX and T5 are easy to farm nowadays, and gives 95 (or even i100 if you're lucky, on par with animus!) weapons, that i'll qualify of "trash" weapon, that you'll use for this tier and forget about it once the new tier of gear will be released.
Your relic, on the other hand, will follow you through the next tier, with new quest to upgrade it, to make it more powerful, to customize it as you want and who knows what they'll add in other patches. See the difference?

Even if somebody goes slowly with this, can you seriously say it's fun to be doing the same crappy dungeons every day for myth until you finally get your weapon? What's the point when you could just spend that time learning the second coils and get the allagan weapon, or even the Levi Ex weapon? Sure you can upgrade the relic, but what ever, the next upgrade is just going to be another massive grindfest. And this is coming from me, a person who LOVE to grind in most games.

I got my animus something like a week and a half ago. I finished the atma 3 days after the 2.2 release. It took me something like 2 months to get all the myth for the books. And I didn't really mind it, since I did all this as DRG and played something I loved, while trying to change my rotation, perfect my positioning, etc. Things that will serve me in coil.
You don't HAVE to do useless and boring speedruns through brayflox while spamming Flare, you know.

Let's see. As a non-raider.. I can re-run content until I puke to get a weapon that will only be used in the content I just burned out on and never want to do again. (Which I did without this weapon)

As a raider, I can raid and get a better weapon.

What is the point?

As a non-raider... I can get a really good weapon, on par with raiding weapons, if I decide to farm for a long time. I won't really need it, but it's an accomplishment in itself and I'll be happy to get it.
If I hate that grind, no problem : I still have my Zenith, or can get a weapon in Leviathan, or a primal weapon, ...

As a raider... I can get a better weapon, that'll help me clear through the content I'm currently doing, until I finish the dungeon and get the best weapon I can have, as a proof of my achievment, that'll help me start the new content once it'll be released. Alternatively, I can also make that long ass farming weapon because I want to get it for X reason (most probably the look).

You fail to see the point?