A friendly warning to SE: Do NOT turn FFXIV into an Asia Grinder!

[Dgsoil]

Chasing numbers is not a long-term motivation

You do realize that this is basically the entire bread and butter of an MMORPG? It's always been based around increasing the numbers on your character. Wasn't always iLvl we were chasing, before it was minimal increases in STR, DEF, HP, etc. Other then vanity that is EXACTLY what has been motivating people in MMORPG's for the past 10+ years.

[Heavy01Mk2]

Blah, blah, blah, same boring arguments, blah, blah

quality post right here

[Seif]

Ok let me just say I REALLY hope when lvl cap rises then it's going to be SUPER slow to go from 50 to 60 vecause otherwise you might as well just leave it at 50 if you're not making it a journey.

[Marael]

Welcome to MMORPGs?

[Welsper59]

Just to clarify: I do NOT have a problem with grinding per se. But I do have a problem if it is used as a cheap excuse for missing content, or for content with very poor production values.

While I do have some minor issues with stuff mentioned, I figured this part is a good case to quote, as it deals with those minor issues (since it's the source of it all). I really don't approve of people saying they don't mind the grind and that they don't like when it's just a "cheap" excuse or whatever other word is typically used. If you have any problems with the very few actual long-term MMORPG grind content in this game, you'll ALWAYS have a problem with it. You just don't like it, period. You probably don't mind it for... an hour... maybe less, but you'd rather it not be there to begin with.

MMORPG grinds are meaningful for different reasons than the reward, and by modern game standards, they're often used as an alternative to something. In this case, these weapons are an alternative to raid drop ones. Will the end result (after 2.3 release) be that relic weapons are better than 2nd Coil? Probably, at least till the next major Coil raid is released, but that's not such a huge deal given the amount of time you have till the next tier of Coil is released. You don't compare an experience you got from a non-MMORPG to an MMORPG. They function differently. What is literally a monotonous grind in a single player game, could turn out to be a rather good experience in a multiplayer one. MMORPGs are not for everyone in the long-term, and in most cases, require a person to be a little masochistic. Anyone can potentially enjoy any game, but lately, a majority of people don't really understand what made MMORPGs so popular to begin with. It's not just the reward, it's the experience. You the player sought the experience. You don't expect it to be given to you, you find it for yourself. It's a small reason why MMORPGs were thought of as a second life, besides the obvious long ass grind time to get things done lol.

One other part of mention is your ideal release time for medium size content every 45 days. While that'd be ideal, it's not very realistic. Are you a slave driver? LOL. Despite popular belief, people in Japan do need a day off once in a while. 45 days is NOT a lot of time for a deadline with a project that involves so much, and people would understand that if they ever worked on big projects that required aid of different departments. Namely if you consider the fact that people do have some days off, so you have to subtract that from the 45 day deadline. I don't know what the job demands for SE, be it allowing for one/two/no days off, but either way... it's not very plausible of schedule for a game like this.

[Nero]

i feel SE need to take their own advice on these long ass grinds


particularly the 2 point

For me it is fun, so what's your point? I don't think you understand what they meant with that. If you play the Game for other reasons than fun, then you are doing it wrong. If something is not fun, do whatever is fun for you.

lol now i see that again i realize they fail in every point, great SE keep going!

For the grinders, grind is ok, but tell me the difference between getting 13500 myths for Animus and 60000 for novus? i never cared about atmas, that's a 2 day task maybe 1 week with bad luck and little time, but this is cheap design, they are just multiplying the numbers.

The difference between 13.500 Myth for Animus and 60.000 for Novus is simply: You DO NOT HAVE TO DO MYTH... not at all. you get one from a quest each day, you CAN get additional ones from fates, you CAN get additional ones from Myth and in 2.3 you CAN get additional ones from Monster Hunts. Read again.. additional! If you just do the daily quest, congrats; you did not farm a single Myth for the whole Novus Stage and you do not have to. Everything else is your.... your personal choice.

[Aery]

In case you think "oh well, one player yells, just ignore him", here is my prophecy about what will happen in the upcoming months if you proceed this way:

- More and more players will realize that only the names and Levels of their weapons and bosses change. Chasing numbers is not a long-term motivation.
- When the previous grind content is nerfed two months later (like you do now with the Myths of the current dungeons in relation to the cost of Animus maps), the following will happen:
- a) Wait for a patch, then subscribe for a month
- b) Grind new content
- c) Unsub
- d) Wait two months until next patch
- e) Go to step a).

The way i see this is... yea, only the Levels of the weapons matter, it's been like that since the beginning.
In my opinion the issue lies within the very basic concept for the game, it's a vertical progression, new content/patches will always bring stronger weapons making the previous content mostly meaningless.

Although, i don't see how "grindy content" causes ppl to only sub for a month.
Isn't it quite the opposite?
Won't non-grindy content cause ppl to only sub for a month, because they'll be done sooner and have nothing left to do?

[Enepttastic]

Although, i don't see how "grindy content" causes ppl to only sub for a month.
Isn't it quite the opposite?
Won't non-grindy content cause ppl to only sub for a month, because they'll be done sooner and have nothing left to do?

From my personal point of view, supplemented with the patterns I've seen in regards to when people complain about "grindy content," the issue isn't the grind itself, but the fact that the content is nothing but a grind.

MMOs are primarily grinds to begin with, the trick is masking the grind. Most common ways I've seen this done is by either making the grind enjoyable(best option IMO), being a change of pace from normal gameplay(kinda a subset of making it enjoyable I'll admit), or by gating the content via lock-outs so the grind takes place over a period of time(Current raids are the most obvious example here).

For the Zodiac Weapons, we've so far gotten a simple quest with a minor, but easily achievable myth grind(assuming 0 myths at the start); followed by a more moderate myth grind(despite the playerbase being told that Zodiacs wouldn't be restricted by tomes...). That covers the base relic and Zenith.

With Atma, we get a pure grind with absolutely no options as to how we can reach our goal(participate in fates), and then have our options reduced as to how we do that(Have to be a level 50 class with zenith equipped). The restrictions mean that, really, the only other things we can do in tandem are SBing some equipment(but never the weapon), and perhaps level our chocobo. Additionally, the entire situation is hit with a horrible RNG system that you have no method of influencing and fates/zone are nowhere near balanced. Not to mention that the supposed reason for having Atmas in fates is to help fates complete in order to assist those using em to level, except for the fact that if there's an Atma Zerg going around, one's most likely going to quit trying to actually be useful in a fate as opposed to trying to tag every mob they can for the extra exp. Then, after actually obtaining the twelve items which, for whatever reason are NOT key items nor do they stack, you merely unlock the ability to upgrade your weapon.

Following Atma, we have the Animus upgrades. Books are gated by a horrific myth grind(Yet again, myths should NOT be a required part of Zodiac Weapon line period), and then mostly require content that's amazingly even more simplistic than going after Fates. Personally, this single area of the Zodiac quest line pisses me off the most.
The myth grind is idiotic, the book content is simplistic, and then we're told that the books aren't even the actual books we were supposed to be going for.
Source: Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XIV Q&A Summary (06/04/2014) Question at 0:09:15, Control-F "Book"

I was highly irritated by the myth grinding for these books to begin with, and now after that was stated, really feel that this aspect of the Zodiac line may be one of the rudest things I've seen a developer do to its playerbase when one takes into account the developer comments both before and afterwards.

As for the how the Novus Weapons system is looking, if this was the beginning of the quests, I'd claim that it's a step in the right direction. Coming from the stupidity of Atma/Animus however, it's a flying leap in the right direction with a hefty running start.

The myth restriction on inks aside(SERIOUSLY?), there's options for how one can obtain Alexandrite(Daily Maps, Myth Maps, Fates, Monster Hunts come 2.3) and how you can obtain the needed materia(Pick your preferred SB method, buy em). I don't agree with the Fates needing an Animus weapon equipped to obtain however. This is much closer to the optimum mindset needed for these quests. It's a grind, yes. It isn't, however, the same grind over, and over, and over again. There's options in both areas of acquisition(Alex and Materia) and that means quite a bit IMO.

Edit: Not willing to waste another post on a quick response

This so much... I really don't understand what's SE's stance on secondary jobs.

What will happen when new jobs are introduced and when players will want to change jobs? Is SE really expecting them to return to the hamster wheel?

This is what happens when developers make mechanics that encourage characters that can do everything but have a one character per class development mindset.

Edit for another response:

Ninja class have to be worth the NEW farm thing and throwing away old progression...
I wonder how many will change their job then, you know: novus is just THE BEGINNING of Relict... (Ninja will not be released soon, by then we have a lot more GRIND past novus)

Actually, I'll be surprised if THF/Ninja isn't one of the upcoming jobs for several reasons, one being that we're lacking a thf/rogue class to begin with and...

Spoilers:

THF/Ninja is alluded to in the Doma Refugees/Leviathan storyline.

3/20

[Kusanagi7]

its a FINAL FANTASY so expect to grind deal with it.

[KerenRhys]

I have no problem with old school mindless grind. I have done worst in older mmo, that's fine by me.
But i think FFXIV is defective by design :

It's a game that allow a player to make multiple class and that's great, i love to make alts.
Alts are important, it's something that can keep your customer active when they are bored with their main class.
But in a way, the mindless grind since the atma weapon is killing alts. There is no way i will do this quest for a secondary class.
SE should make a feature that allow to do this quest more quickly on alt. I'm not saying to give items for free to any reroll, but allow them to do this quest quicker when they already did it on an other class.

This so much... I really don't understand what's SE's stance on secondary jobs.

What will happen when new jobs are introduced and when players will want to change jobs? Is SE really expecting them to return to the hamster wheel?