Dragoons need to be buffed...

[Sygmaelle]

Well I have to agree with what pwnz stated I'm the most geared in my raid group by far. In darnus pre mega flare I am king.

Really you re keepin up with summoners dealin between 500 - 600 and then stickin to 400 dps until mega flare no matter what ?

Parse please, because as soon as Nael do an iron chariot you re just like another melee : droppin big time

[Mardel]

Really you re keepin up with summoners dealin between 500 - 600 and then stickin to 400 dps until mega flare no matter what ?

Parse please, because as soon as Nael do an iron chariot you re just like another melee : droppin big time

1. My group isn't stupid. We gather and me nor the monk lose a GCD during iron chariot.

2. Those numbers aren't possible unless you took like a retarded 30 second snap shot. Guys get better parsers or at least set them up properly XD.

3. I'm tired seeing these people with absurdly high parses that aren't possible unless they can't read it correctly, use incorrect culling, or just plain LIE. Not even on training dummies could single target damage spike that high without being a 10-30 second snap shot of a fight.

If someone states 500 pre-mega flare pre jump on darnus I don't care who it is. Their number is wrong and probably more like 370~400 (400 if they are stupid lucky and have full high allagan)

Why?
1. Darnus doesn't take dot damage in the air.
2. You can't have golems close for bane or they will merge and you die.
3. Only during Heaven's Fall can a smn do a bane that is strong.

[Lewena]

snip

You are basically asking the DRG to be better than the MNK un every aspect. Except for cloning both classes. Why would a raid take a MNK while a DRG would have the same overall DPS by himself while:
- a better burst allows easier management of some mechanics such as killing adds or pushing annoying phase quickier?
- pushing the numbers of another party member?
- having better aoes?

Btw your own number shows that the DRG is pretty near to the MNK if you add the extra DPS you allow for one single BRD. And you still have better burst. Please look to the raid numbers and not your individual one.

[Mardel]

You are basically asking the DRG to be better than the MNK un every aspect. Except for cloning both classes. Why would a raid take a MNK while a DRG would have the same overall DPS by himself while:
- a better burst allows easier management of some mechanics such as killing adds or pushing annoying phase quickier?
- pushing the numbers of another party member?
- having better aoes?

Btw your own number shows that the DRG is pretty near to the MNK if you add the extra DPS you allow for one single BRD. And you still have better burst. Please look to the raid numbers and not your individual one.

Well tbh I'm not sure of drg has what I could consider "better burst". More like we blow our wad earlier than monk. A monk still have perfect balance up their sleeve if any one would get "burst king" title wouldn't that go to bard with a barrage up their sleeve? Everytime I see a fight I always see BRD for the first little bit way up there in damage, usually top. Also in terms of just burning something down brd > smn ~ drg ? Seems about right if we are just blowing all GCD to kill something quickly.

The final reason why drg should get buff is if musketeer is BLUNT damage and is a dps class. If this is the case there will be like almost 0 reason to bring a drg lol, unless you plan to do something like.... Drg, mnk, brd, musketeer. In which case would be like... why? When you can bring a smn who will do more damage anyways! Also, consider the dagger class as a slashing class too. A good warrior will keep the slashing debuff up as well, meaning another reason not to bring a drg along if you have 2 tanks.

Granted outside t6/7 my group runs 1 tank meaning we only bring a pld to tank our stuff. However, the norm is pld/war thus if monk > drg and musketeer <3 monk this means we will see something like... these comps.

pld,war,mnk,gun,dagger, brd/cast, healers for 2 tanks

pld, mnk, gun, dagger, brd, smn, healers for 1 tank

Hell my drg is i108 and if musketeer was blunt and dagger slashing... I wouldn't bring myself along to make the best comp XD (either way I'm probably making drg the third class I play once dagger class is live)

[Jollyy5]

I'm fairly sure Monks can deal more damage overall in pretty much every boss fight and, I can't stress this enough, still having 20% Mantra and INT debuff, and considering many of the bosses deal magic damage, those two combined can be quite a big help.

And now that I think about it, why do people keep saying: "Hurr, DRGs have two stuns!" Well, so do Monks, Steel Peak and Shoulder Tackle (which works pretty much like Spineshatter Dive) except that it has ONLY 30 sec CD, (The only downside being the distance rquirement) while Spineshatter Dive has 90 sec, so Shoudler Tackle more than makes up for Steel Peak's 40 sec CD.

[Jollyy5]

And let's not bring the rotation/positioning thing into this again. Monk is somewhat harder to play than a DRG, but it's not rocket science, I have a level 50 Monk, I've tested it.

I really don't think that Monk should be vastly superior just because it's a little bit more difficult to play, if you are good, you can pretty much always top the charts, as for DRGs, even if you get good, the roof gets in the way a lot sooner than for Monks, and you won't have anything else to bring to the field either.

That slightly better burst of DRGs just simply doesn't cut it and bring DRGs anywhere near Monks.

[Pwnznewbz]

Btw your own number shows that the DRG is pretty near to the MNK if you add the extra DPS you allow for one single BRD. And you still have better burst. Please look to the raid numbers and not your individual one.

You made a few presumptions. 1) I gave approx variations to show the ranking of dps. 2) You are assuming that every bard given the 10% buff is going to push my over all dps for the raid above the monk. That isn't always the case. 3) AOEs aren't used too often in coil boss fights. The burst, sure, but not the aoe.

It's not just about equalizing the dps classes perfectly, but rather finding a better balance. As of right now, bards give a magic damage buff to smns and blms. Should bards automatically do less damage because they give a buff? My argument could be exactly the same regarding bards: support actions and abilities do not warrant a 10% reduction in over all damage for a dps class.

[rickyguo]

You made a few presumptions. 1) I gave approx variations to show the ranking of dps. 2) You are assuming that every bard given the 10% buff is going to push my over all dps for the raid above the monk. That isn't always the case. 3) AOEs aren't used too often in coil boss fights. The burst, sure, but not the aoe.

It's not just about equalizing the dps classes perfectly, but rather finding a better balance. As of right now, bards give a magic damage buff to smns and blms. Should bards automatically do less damage because they give a buff? My argument could be exactly the same regarding bards: support actions and abilities do not warrant a 10% reduction in over all damage for a dps class.

Also, it's not a 10% buff. Disembowel doesn't affect actual dot ticks.

[Lemon8or]

A monk still have perfect balance up their sleeve

Perfect Balance has a 3 minutes CD, used at start of battle to get GL3 quick or saved for when you have a forced drop. Unless there is no single point in the fight where a monk might drop GL3, I don't see monks saving it for burst.

any one would get "burst king" title wouldn't that go to bard

Nobody is saying Dragoon is burst king.

The final reason why drg should get buff is if musketeer is BLUNT damage and is a dps class.

That is a big IF. We know nothing about the new gun class yet except for well, it uses gun.

I'm fairly sure Monks can deal more damage overall in pretty much every boss fight and, I can't stress this enough, still having 20% Mantra and INT debuff, and considering many of the bosses deal magic damage, those two combined can be quite a big help.

You're overestimating the 15% extra healing on Mantra and the INT debuff. Like I said, monks have more variance in their DPS. Even at the same ilevel, it can be as wide as 100+dps between each and every monks. And why are you still on about Mnk vs Drg anyway? Coil 2 is completely fine (even better on turn 7) to have 2 melee DPS. Are you going to complain when Ninja (if DPS) comes out as well?

Hell, even as Monk I'm seeing crits of 8XX.

I crit for 1000 damage on turn 8 once or twice per fight before. Does that mean I have good burst? No. My ilevel95 dragoon can crit for more than that. Crit damage is not burst damage.

[whiskeybravo]

I crit for 1000 damage on turn 8 once or twice per fight before. Does that mean I have good burst? No. My ilevel95 dragoon can crit for more than that. Crit damage is not burst damage.

But.. Life Surge..