Question on Scholar's pet

[Vena_Sera]

And you seem to find it inconceivable that yes, I can stance dance and DPS perfectly fine with Selene. I don't need Eos out to DPS and you're not a bad healer if you do require Eos, but you're also not the best.

And you seem to be really good at blatantly ignoring what was even said. Not one of my posts state that you CANNOT use Selene and be able to dps. Not one of my posts state that I even consider myself the "best" healer. So, where are you building these conclusions? You're still avoiding both my questions and the subject matter at hand. So I'll ask again. Where did I say anything about overhealing, or "requiring" Eos to be able to dps, or about being the best healer? Please enlighten me.

[rhemi1]

snip

So, you're purposefully using Eos and overhealing when you're fully capable of using Selene and increasing raid DPS? You seem to be trying to make the point that Eos will always be better than Selene because of some weird mana efficiency issue that doesn't exist since any decent SCH that can manage Aetherflow properly is not going to have mana issues to begin with. Your WHM certainly isn't going to notice Fairy Mantra every 2 minutes more than a passive spell speed boost every 30 seconds.

You use Eos when the encounter calls for her abilities. When there's sufficient AOE damage so that WD won't overheal and you can get use out of her two raid cooldowns.

[Vena_Sera]

You're (mistakenly) believing that you need to use Eos if you want to DPS yourself. You do not. In fact, a lot of that Roused Whispering Dawn is going straight to overhealing at that point, and you'd be wasting it for a time when you might actually NEED that AOE healing.

I'm still trying to figure out where I said you NEED eos to be able to dps. I simply stated that it's the safest and overall more effective option. Regen + WD can even enable both healers to dps if they so choose. The fact that we're pushing 3 meteors on T9 with sch/whm dps + eos pretty much speaks for that. Regen/WD+embrace can eat Nael's auto attacks/claw easily. Granted this is only 1 fight, but I've played around with both methods. With selene and without. And having Eos contributed to more overall rdps than using selene.

[rhemi1]

Funny, we do the same thing with Selene. Without WD. I'm in Cleric stance for almost the entirety of P1-P3, only switching to Eos for P2 to mitigate Megaflare and back to Selene for P3. Our WHM can do the same if he chose to, but he does not.

So, I'M trying to figure out why you're using Eos at all in a phase where the WHM can handle all AOE healing and are making the fight longer than it needs to be by doing so.

[Tranquil]

This is semi-offtopic, but you don't really need to use Eos for any phase of T9. Most of its buffs are hard to minmax due to their 15y ranges in some phases, or then they are simply overkill and not needed, thus Selene would improve the party's performance more overall. Fey covenant? Don't need it for Megaflare or Thermionics in P4 either (though for the latter it helps, if you have lesser people to stack up with). Illumination? Can be used and is no doubt good, but there is no need for it, ever. WD? Just a decent 'regen' on the MT for the most part, with the only good use of it actually being during Meteor Streams or for P4 Thermionics, wherein it is not needed either. I have used Selene on all of our T9 kills so far, doing 98 DPS on this week's kill.

I don't think WD+embrace gives you enough wiggle room to justify Eos for that reason alone, for your own off-DPS, because the whole party benefits more from Selene and you would be unaffected as well.

[Tsurayu]

My god, the ego tripping in this thread has been palpable.

I think people are forgetting that the Scholar is a diverse class, there are no "best" Scholars out there because there is no definitive way to play the class, as you may argue with other classes. There isn't a right or wrong time to use Eos or Selene for a particular instance. There are too many extenuating circumstances between the player, and his/her party, to have the go-to fairy for each instance.

For example, I tend to use Selene when I'm doing my Duty Roulette. However, sometimes I'll switch to Eos because I'm actually hindering some DPS who have problems managing TP/MP correctly, or when they will have trouble dodging AoEs and Whispering Dawn takes some of the stress from me. Same dungeon, but different parties require different handling.

Point is, get off your high horses and stop acting like there is the end-all-be-all of Fairy strategies because there are too many variables in this game for that to exist.

[TheWaywardWind]

My god, the ego tripping in this thread has been palpable.

...

Point is, get off your high horses and stop acting like there is the end-all-be-all of Fairy strategies because there are too many variables in this game for that to exist.

This is the only correct post in this entire thread.

[Tranquil]

There isn't a right or wrong time to use Eos or Selene for a particular instance. There are too many extenuating circumstances between the player, and his/her party, to have the go-to fairy for each instance.

Point is, get off your high horses and stop acting like there is the end-all-be-all of Fairy strategies because there are too many variables in this game for that to exist.

Just because you can get by with either fairy and because there are variables to situations doesn't mean it's suddenly ridiculous to theorycraft about their optimization in a given encounter, assuming the party can execute things within an expected error margin.

The Scholar is a versatile job - as you said - but to say that a party would not benefit of a certain fairy more in situations X or Y is not true either. That is why we discussed the topic. Can you get by with either? Yes. Should you not care how to optimize as much as you can? No. Just because you don't measure the efficiency of a SCH like you would a DPS class (more healing is not necessarily good etc.) such as the SMN wherein you can clearly tell if their throughput is lacking (eg. not maximizing DPS due to using the wrong pet etc.) doesn't mean it suddenly becomes a sin to try to optimize your fairy usage tailored to the encounter at hand. No one is telling you that there are end all be all -rules to it, either.

[givemeraptors]

Just because you can get by with either fairy and because there are variables to situations doesn't mean it's suddenly ridiculous to theorycraft about their optimization in a given encounter, assuming the party can execute things within an expected error margin.

Here! Here!

[Tsurayu]

Oh I have nothing against theorycrafting. In fact I like to look up and learn new things, otherwise I wouldn't bother ever visiting this forum.

But there is an inherit amount of randomness involved because you can do the best you can to perfect your own strategies, your own way of handling your class, but you can't account for other people, and in the end, that will always affect your ability to play your class too.

No, I didn't mean to make it sound like you should throw your arms up in the air and go "Hmm, well, I'm just gonna roll with Eos today cause everything is a toss up!" But at the same time planning, strategy and skill only take you so far, not the entire way.