Tanks that don't tank

[RunaRugar]

It's not really a problem just about tanks, experience says every new player is bound to make mistakes while playing the class they chose. If someone with endgame experience decides to play another class, then the are bound to know, at least a little bit, what they are supposed to do, on the other hand new players think they are doing fine if not perfectly. I found a couple of SMN's I assumed were new to the game since it was their only class to 50 spamming Ruin II in Titan HM, after I suggested them to use Ruin I because it's more efficient, they said "No, it takes too long to cast lol", instead of asking why or how is that more efficient, they chose to ignore my advice. Sometimes people listen, sometimes they won't. I try to play as friendly and helpful when dealing with people who are obviously new or not as good as they think, OP's frustration is understandable.

[Gnova]

I'm not sure it's the learning curve or how the game explains things I think it is just a case that someone wants to play a melee class with a typical fantasy weapon (sword axe) and are then tossed into a role they have no desire to play. Why is there no DPS class that use traditional fantasy rpg melee weapons?
They suffer through the story dungeons with overgeared groups pulling them through and then just carry on with their solo play.

It also doesn't help, even though it isn't a primary reason, that the guildhests pop at level ten and the maurader doesn't have any tools to actually carry out his role. What it seems to show you is pick one mob, beat on it, and let the group worry about the rest.
Healers can heal, DPS can DPS, and tanks can... Be worthless.
If that is what you do at level 10 then why not at level 30?

[Dotsusama]

Every time I DF with a Gladiator that doesn't have a shield equipped, I take a shot. I take an additional shot for every 5 levels past 15 that they are.

I'll tell you, running a dungeon as the healer after six shots is much more tolerable but I really start pitying my party after that point.

[Kinseykinz]

This seems like a good place to link this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...23#post2117923

[Suggestion] Please make the Level 15 Class Quest a Dungeon Reguirement

So, I get what happens. New players get overwhelmed with what to do/which side story leads where/where they need to go next for their main story etc. But I have done far far far too many level 15-19 (yes even Halatali) with folk who have yet to complete (and therefore learn it's skill) there level 15 class quest. This is especially problematic with Tanks as in both cases, their level 15 skill allows them to Pull mobs from afar AND build Enmity. Not only that, it's their ONLY ranged attack/Enmity grabber until Provoke at level 22 (PLD)

Skills many players are missing at in these dungeons (all learned via their class quest)
GLA: Shield Lob =+enm skill/ranged attack.
MRD: Tomahawk= +enm skill/ranged attack.

CNJ: Fluid Aura= knockback+bind. Less useful (and can annoy) to most party's but can help knock a mob away from a healer/knock it back to the tank. Occasionally useful in group play.

ACN: Topaz Carby. Not a great group Carby....but can save the day if tank dies/party needs a pseudo tank.
THM: Scathe. A spell they can cast while moving/ filler spell while regening MP in Umbral.
BRD: Repelling Shot. A distancing move to assist a Archer in getting out of a bad spot quickly.

LNC: Piercing Talon. A ranged attack. Useful to start attacking tanks target/or in the rare instance you'd need to pull (or for solo play).
PGL: Touch of Death. A DoT

And yes, I get some of these are underwhelming in party play/more useful solo. But others (especially the tank moves), make party play esp. low level, much more fluid.

So in order to make sure players realize, 'Hey, you get a skill from doing the class quest' Maybe if would be most prudent to lock them out of their first dungeon, Satasha, until they complete it. This way, at least when they enter, they have all their possible skills available on their toolbars...still not going to fix if they know how to use them, but just entering with the right tools is a start.

This was just my suggestion in maybe helping newer, lower leveled players make sure that they have all their skills available to them+ maybe understand just a little bit about their role in the group before entering the dungeon (guildhests are supposed to teach you dungeon techniques too btw...but nothing 'forces' you to do those either until you're level 50....so)

[Floppytop]

The problem is that people DO offer them friendly advise but even basic advise like "spam flash two or three times at the beginning of a fight" is completely ignored. I cast one cure and the adds are stuck to me for the remainder of the fight.

It is really frustrating for the healer to be dealing with adds the entire fight while the gladiator's MP bar is sitting t 100% or OP is not used for the entire fight.
In the "learning dungeons" it doesn't bother me when I have to deal with some agro problems as long as I feel the tank is at least trying.

I agree with this completly if you are new and are struggling then thats ok take advice and try and do better. It is the ones that ignore everything anyone say just go into a pack and only hit the mob the whole time with out a care in the world that are a pain.

I recently started tanking and I am finding it hard but I always try and hold hate with everthing even if the dps are being a pain

[Garlyle]

but I always try and hold hate with everthing even if the dps are being a pain

Good!

That aside though, actually, the aggro mechanics are really important to success in dungeons, but they're never ever explained in-game. For some players, especially those familiar with MMOs, enmity is a 'duh'. For many players though, there's just this off "increases enmity" on some tank moves, and that's about it for in-game mentions and explanations.

There is a lot more the game could do to teach key mechanics like that.

[Grenwal]

Question from an mmo/ffxiv noob: as a dps role, should I be switching targets now and then when doing dungeons in order to not sap "hate" from the tank? Very new to this type of game and I just completed my first try at Satasha(sp?) a few days ago so any advice is welcome!

[Estellios]

That's kind of a tricky question but usually if a tank in low level dungeons isn't able to keep hate on one enemy they probably don't have it on the rest of the pack lol.

If the enemy you are fighting is almost dead, it's best to just finish it off so it's less incoming damage but aside from that it's probably better to stick to auto-attacks for a moment until your tank cements hate on themselves, assuming they are playing their class correctly.

[Grenwal]

....

Duly noted, I'm just hoping the game does a little better job of helping me become aware of it's mechanics in the near future. Tyvm!

[Urthdigger]

Question from an mmo/ffxiv noob: as a dps role, should I be switching targets now and then when doing dungeons in order to not sap "hate" from the tank? Very new to this type of game and I just completed my first try at Satasha(sp?) a few days ago so any advice is welcome!

Switching targets is actually the LAST thing you want to do. Most of a tank's enmity tools are single-target, so he's likely to have a lot of hate on the target he is fighting... and not very much on the others. As a result, if you switch targets, you'll pull hate on whatever he's not fighting.