with this mindset the future looks dim

[OPneedNerfs]

that's my point we learned in t5 just like ifrit.

Just a few questions cause I'm curious.

Since we're talking about DF, I'm assuming you did this particular T5 using the DF.

Was the group totally made up of random 1/2 people queueing in the DF seperately or was there a 4-5 people group who queued together?

Did the whole group not know any of the mechanics beforehand?

If the answer to the prev question is no, did anyone give any instructions/tips prior to the encounter?

and last but not least,

Did you clear it with that group?

[Zeille]

that's my point we learned in t5 just like ifrit.

Let me know when you win turn 5 using this technique of reinventing the wheel then. To most other people, who would like to clear it in a timely fashion, this is a huge waste of time.

[Eidolon]

that's my point we learned in t5 just like ifrit.

Was every member of your team one who didn't watch a video / didn't read -any- guides about it? Didn't talk with anyone about it for a general strategy?

I only ask this because just one person spoils the philosophy. The moment that one person enters with knowledge, he shares it with others. You're not 'learning' at that point. The ones who truly learned T5 - are the ones who fought it before the World Firsts, because information was -so limited- and -so rare-

[Yurihyuga]

This is the first MMO I've ever played that the majority of the players treat the game as a job. No one just kicks back and enjoys themselves here. Maybe it's the grind-centric playstyle of FF14, but I've never played an MMO before where end-game isn't done by guilds that have played together and become friends.

Between mandatory video game homework, people forcing their entire parties into speed runs, and people bitching when new players want to watch cutscenes, the general community in this game is pretty toxic.

welcome to FFXIV the roller-coaster MMO.

[Kuwagami]

How frustrated would you get if every time, you queued for your 'Trial' Roulette, you got 7 other people who had no idea what to do in the fight....and who not only that, 'wanted to learn as we go'/'experience it ourselves'? How patient could you be every time? Even if you didn't mind spending an hour wiping out, with maybe only a 40-60% chance of success at the end of an hour, how often would you now queue for trials in your DF? How much of your game play time would that eat up, if you spent an hour in one Trial Roulette every night? Would you still have time for other game activities you enjoy, or do you count on that queue not really taking more than 15-20 minutes tops? How frustrated would you be if you, spent an hour learning the mechanics in the first group and didn't clear, but now timed out and needed to re-start from scratch with a second group....again with 7 people who had no idea how to do the fight and wanted no input? How much of this could you take until you'd just want to win?

While you rise valid points and well constructed, this is wrong.
the sole purpose of the roulette is to help new players to get their way through the content. Not farming tomes quicker. Thus, you HAVE to expect to meet 7 people going blind in it. If you aren't expecting it, I suggest you stop the Trial roulette quick enough not to be disappointed.

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Well, I didn't know that. That's the first company that I heard of allowing people to monetize their products on youtube freely..

How did you know what to do for conflags and fireballs? Do you know how to handle Divebombs/Twisters/Dreadknight/Hatches? This information doesn't magically get absorbed by your brain through osmosis. If you don't know how to handle those things, I guarantee you will wipe your party.

Either someone told you what to do by typing out the strat (making someone else do the work you could have done yourself) in chat or you looked it up beforehand (research). Either way, that's not going in completely blind without knowing anything at all and winging it.

Spoilers for people who wouldn't want to know

You know that these mechanics (twister excepted) aren't that hard to learn/handle even going blindly ? I did that with my static (inb4 : "not DF", it wasn't available back when we learned it, even though if I got my clear with 15% echo due to various reasons) and honestly, if you aren't tunnel visioning things, it's pretty easy to understand how they work.
=> conflags and fireballs are easy to figure out. Really. Only thing you might not find by yourself easily is the conflag feeding for slow ones (which then become quick ones, and are much more difficult to handle)
=> divebombs aren't that difficult either. Circle > twintania appears > dive. Now to avoid it, well Titan is harder. The only point of the "run-the-hill" is to aim the dive in a tiny arena so that you can go behind Twintania and get safe quicker. You could easily avoid it by strafing in the middle of the arena.
=> DS on the other hand are tricky to learn. Once you figure out the timer though, it's only a matter of practicing.
=> twisters are the hard part, I'll give you that. You'll take a lot of time to understand it if you go blindly. Though once you try to move and notice you're safe doing it, you're good again.
=>DK aren't difficult at all. Just need to notice that you have to focus fire (but conflags taught you that already). Figuring that 2nd place in enmity never get targeted though is close to impossible. It makes the fight a pure luck factor at this point.
=> hatching is the same kind of attack as Aetheric Profusion. I think you can handle it pretty easily with the collars without too many wipes.

Was every member of your team one who didn't watch a video / didn't read -any- guides about it? Didn't talk with anyone about it for a general strategy?

I only ask this because just one person spoils the philosophy. The moment that one person enters with knowledge, he shares it with others. You're not 'learning' at that point. The ones who truly learned T5 - are the ones who fought it before the World Firsts, because information was -so limited- and -so rare-

There are some people (or maybe I'm alone doing that) who just give information when asked to, and only to explain what happened. Things they could have noticed themselves on what happened just before.

[Lamentations]

You do realize there are very informative videos that explain every mechanic right?
Just search "boss name mrhappy".

Nothing teaches an aoe mechanic to avoid better than getting hit by it, and nothing says easy mode or entitled better than demanding everyone know a fight before they enter it.

Watching some you-tube video until you see it in your sleep is just being "carried" by those peoples forehand recorded experience of the event as defined by pretty much every you-tube "must" post in this thread.

Watching mechanics videos is far lazier than learning it firsthand, were not talking math class here.

[Zeille]

Of course you can learn how each and every one of those mechanics work. Until you do, it's going to take trial and error to figure it all out, which usually means wiping/dying.

That all can be prevented or lessened to a degree by taking a few minutes to do some research. Most people don't enjoy wiping and if you can do something about it beforehand, why wouldn't you? That's the whole argument.

Want to bash your head learning mechanics on your own? Fine, just don't expect random people you may end up with to be happy about it. Learning mechanics with friends/LS/FC/etc? Have at it and enjoy yourself. He even said his party kept failing on conflags and fireballs, which tells me for some people, it may not be that quick and easy to learn.

[Kiokin]

This is the first MMO I've ever played that the majority of the players treat the game as a job. No one just kicks back and enjoys themselves here. Maybe it's the grind-centric playstyle of FF14, but I've never played an MMO before where end-game isn't done by guilds that have played together and become friends.

Between mandatory video game homework, people forcing their entire parties into speed runs, and people bitching when new players want to watch cutscenes, the general community in this game is pretty toxic.

The word "toxic" is beginning to piss me off so much. Like, as soon as something happens that people don't agree with "Aw man, that's so toxic." All because of the stupid LoL thing where they used that word to describe poor sports. The people spewing the word "toxic" everywhere are the "toxic" ones. Stop spamming that ridiculous buzzword.

[Lamentations]

Of course you can learn how each and every one of those mechanics work. Until you do, it's going to take trial and error to figure it all out, which usually means wiping/dying.

That all can be prevented or lessened to a degree by taking a few minutes to do some research. Most people don't enjoy wiping and if you can do something about it beforehand, why wouldn't you? That's the whole argument.

If people are so my time self centered then how about we petition SE to patch out wiping and dieing altogether.

If conflags and fireballs aren't that easy to learn firsthand, I call BS on learning them secondhand greatly reducing wipes.

Why for that matter don't we all just watch videos of XIV and just not bother playing it at all.

If people want to rage like toddlers every time they wipe, I say stop playing video games.

[Lamentations]

So she runs with the content with her own FC? FC members are willing to help one another in new content.

She runs content with and without our FC, you assumed she doesn't run without them just because I didn't say it, fail.

I never used the word "cheat", direct misquote, fail.

People demanding players have you-tube foreknowledge of fights pay for the game, and think they should be able to play the way they want to, and screw everyone else, were even.

Why are you-tube "must" individuals so adamant about defending THEIR play style, but screwing everyone else?, yea sorry, but no.