with this mindset the future looks dim

[Dano]

snip

^
if you already have a static there's no need to follow Mr Happy's video to the letter, some statics don't even watch them because they are willing to learn the mechanics by themselves. That said, no need to bash Mr Happy if his videos aren't helping you, it's still a source to learn and understand a fight's mechanics.

[aray0002]

every FN day my Black List fills with Gil Sellers that seem to have FREE ROAM on Courel servers. Over 500 shouts / tells an hour from the same ass Group GK-Gold.com
I spend my hard earned money on a service that keeps me from enjoying the game.

SE i have turned off my auto billing ... Every single one of you Corp Suit and Ties need to figure something out. You TURNED FF franchise into a " BULLY CAMP " for those that can not learn the mechanics of a fight because of Duty Finder .. what a JOKE

So I pay you monthy fees to be TOLD > I SUCK at My JOB ?? No you SUCK at making Games FUN anymore.

[Zumi]

Err. . .He's the reason no one on NA servers likes to do the triangle method for Garuda Ex, even though it lowers the gear requirements to complete it. So, no, I'd not consider him the best out there.

Nobody likes to do it because it over-complicates an otherwise easy fight.

[Viridiana]

Nobody likes to do it because it over-complicates an otherwise easy fight.

It's no more complicated than what I see happen with every single Garuda HM. >_>

That is, the OT grabs Red, whoever has the highest dps (often a BRD due to range) gets green, DPS burns green, burns red, switches back to Garuda. Only real difference is what corner you go to.

[Kinseykinz]

The other thing to keep in mind, is all sorts of different content is Duty Finderable:

And there is a big difference between 'winging it' on a Guildheist vs. 'winging it' on EX Primals.

Guildheists were designed to be done with strangers...in a PuG, and the instructions, believe it or not, are given to you by the gosh darn game. Which is frightening when you consider how many times I've done these with groups and asked (especially on the less common to get ones) 'everyone know what to do?' And people are still, ignoring flames/bubbles or popping purples, not killing the mobs at the same time, killing the damn turtle ....etc. But still, usually even the most dis-jointed team can salvage these pretty easily.

The same is true of most storyline dungeons/trials etc. Sure, party members might hit a snag/ wipe a little here and there, but it's typically no biggie and people still get their clears and experiences within the time allowed . But again, SE more or less expected this content to be PuG'd, and therefore they tried to make it interesting w/ some challenges here and there but overall, pretty easy for a 4 man team....potentially even a team that can't communicate with each other well due to language differences etc, still come out victorious their first run (a wipe or 2 not withstanding).

But once you finish the main storyline, all of that changes. SE now is writing much of the content to be done by set groups. So now there's an expectation of teamwork, and group unity. Which is no biggie. Any 8-man static that keeps chipping away at the content HM Primals/Binding Coil 1 and up, is going to beat it...master it, and be able to farm it. It might take them some time (like hours/days)....and multiple wipes, but of course, a dedicated team that plays their endgame content together will be able to clear everything in game without looking up a strategy.

Here's the thing though: Duty Finder....and even Party Finder is NOT a dedicated team/group. And so, in order to make sure that these types of PuG parties have a strong chance of being successful in the time allotted for that duty, having some pre-knowledge of the battle and it's mechanics replaces the need for team synergy + time and practice you would gain from doing the content in a 'Static 8man'. Also, because you're now relying on 7 other people to 'do their job', it is more or less expected people follow the 'conventional' battle plan...which means once again, it's good to make sure you know what that is beforehand. Now where you gain this knowledge is up to you. You can read a guide, watch a video, talk to a friend, practice with your FC, learn it in a static etc....but once you start queuing for 90% of most 'endgame' DF queues, you should know the basics of the battle.

Going in blind just means you expect the 7 other people who know the battle to teach you/or worse, carry you though it. That is an unrealistic expectation....and something to be honest, depending on the fight, would probably cost you 200-500K on my server to get from a willing group. (IE pay for your Titan HM win). And while I think charging people/paying people for a win is both shady and sad, at least when people buy their wins, both sides aren't lying about what happened. You paid them for their skill and knowledge, you got the win you wanted....no reading required.

Now, DF/PF still doesn't really solve all your content clearing woes...because really EX Primals, and Turns 5+ are still easiest and most reliably done by set statics and groups that know each other and their playstyles. Now sure, all of this content can be 'farrmed' by folk who've already cleared it multiple times, and those folk can typically easily PuG it with 7 other people who also have it on farm. But most of these battles have very unforgiving mechanics that typically can't be worked out in a single 'session' by a true DF pug group. (meaning you'd time out before you could figure out T5 start -finish with your average PuG if no one had any pre-knowledge of the fight). Also, as the majority of the community currently does NOT have this content cleared, let alone 'on farm', it is fairly impossible to DF this content and expect a win. This is why currently DF for this specific content is used for practice often without people losing their minds with you....



SO that's one problem....all content is NOT created equal. No one really cares if you queue for Haukke Manor Story and have no idea what to expect....people do expect if you're a tank and you queue for Garuda HM, you at least know the basic 'hold her here...then here' pattern and/or if OT 'grab this sister and hold it here' stuff. So the 'research first' thing really is content specific...

But there's a bigger problem with 'I don't need to research'

Everyone on the side of 'I don't need to study for a video game' has done a good job saying 'I am entitled to play how I want' and has not thought much about 'well what if everyone played that way all the time'.

How frustrated would you get if every time, you queued for your 'Trial' Roulette, you got 7 other people who had no idea what to do in the fight....and who not only that, 'wanted to learn as we go'/'experience it ourselves'? How patient could you be every time? Even if you didn't mind spending an hour wiping out, with maybe only a 40-60% chance of success at the end of an hour, how often would you now queue for trials in your DF? How much of your game play time would that eat up, if you spent an hour in one Trial Roulette every night? Would you still have time for other game activities you enjoy, or do you count on that queue not really taking more than 15-20 minutes tops? How frustrated would you be if you, spent an hour learning the mechanics in the first group and didn't clear, but now timed out and needed to re-start from scratch with a second group....again with 7 people who had no idea how to do the fight and wanted no input? How much of this could you take until you'd just want to win?

Or Crystal Tower w/ 23 other people who 'want to learn on our own'
Or Turn 4+?
Or Garuda EX?

You sooner or later would just be like 'Screw it, I'm not going to waste my time anymore.' ....only grouping with friends/FC mates etc. Which means, the DF/PF would be even less efficient and practical than it is now.


So the problem is, if MORE players thought like you, and didn't research, practice with friends, queue for content they have on Farm via DF, then you wouldn't have people to go 'learn' with because their frustrations with either 'DF groups wipe too much/take too long to clear simple things/I waste too much time and might not get the clear' will outweigh their desire for the daily bonuses/random PuG. Better to go do something else with their time.

Which brings it back to which is more selfish, my expectation that you as an adult take some personal responsibility and don't waste my time on this content ...or you believing I (and 7 other people) should either (for free) spend my time and energy teaching you a stranger I don't know the knowledge I have, or be patient and let you 'figure it out' as you go...or worse, have 7 strangers for free, do your work for you?

[OPneedNerfs]

-snip-

Great post, but we all know what the other side will respond with.

"If you're playing a video game, you're already wasting time"

and all that jazz.

There's just no point in this discussion anymore. It's a simple case of preaching to the choir on both sides. Those who prefer to research content and see it as you do will do it while those who prefer to experience it first hand through the DF will continue doing so. In truth, both sides will never meet for any content with multitudes of mechanics such as T5 as you have mentioned. Those who really wish to clear such content will go ahead and start a PF while filtering out players who are from the other camp. Sooner or later, the 2 camps will be divided and everyone can be happy. It's simply a matter of "when will I find a static group to do content with".

I really don't see any point in changing the mindsets of the other camp, that's just how they want to experience the game, the ones who don't wish to see that happening, can start looking for people and start making friends with similar mindsets to do content with. If people choose to continuously use the DF for such content while not doing anything to fix the "issue" themselves, what hope have they of making the other camp change their way of playing?

tl;dr If you're sick and tired of people with different views and playstyles of your own, stop using the DF and start forming your own group of players who share your views and playstyles.

[Swagcity]

And that's the problem. The comparison is there, you just dismiss it out of hand and call it bizarre instead of accepting it as a valid view.


And that's why I said earlier that there are ways to make people better learners. Not just simply copying either. I've seen videos of people doing a fight a certain way, and can see during said video, a better way to do it, due to how they did it.

Obviously,lol, I just compared the two to demonstrate how bizarre it was. Are there Roe or Lalas' in RL? Are there giant man eating months? Goobues? if you tell your doctor you seen and slain any of the aforementioned in rl; he may refer you to another doctor if you get my drift.......

If you want the last word, you can have it. It is not that serious. We obviously agree on this, don't see why you keep dissecting the topic. You must be feeling some type of way "Shrugs"

[rwyan]

Couldn't agree more with the OP. One of the reasons I play MMOs is the "joy" of working together with other players to overcome obstacles. Part of that is inquiring for advice/tips/info on any encounters your party members may have.

At work, if a coworker asks me a question about something I know, I don't go, "Here, take this book and find the answer yourself... or... hey, go to youtube and watch the video you <expletive>!" That'd get me fired as that sort of behavior would illustrate my INABILITY to work with others.

There is a poor sense of camaraderie and compassion amongst MMO players, and it only seems to be getting worse with each new game.

Just the other day, I was fussing with my mouse and was unable to get a group heal off after 2 DPS' got hit by AOE and inevitably died. One of DPS gave me some snippy comments and then preceded to take as much dmg from all sorts of AOE throughout the rest of the dungeon run as possible.

[Kerberon]

Couldn't agree more with the OP. One of the reasons I play MMOs is the "joy" of working together with other players to overcome obstacles. Part of that is inquiring for advice/tips/info on any encounters your party members may have.

At work, if a coworker asks me a question about something I know, I don't go, "Here, take this book and find the answer yourself... or... hey, go to youtube and watch the video you <expletive>!" That'd get me fired as that sort of behavior would illustrate my INABILITY to work with others.

Here's the big problem. Assuming it's an endgame raid, not watching a video or reading a guide isn't a coworker asking a question. It's the coworker calling you asking you to punch them in and asking you how to turn the ignition in their car. Meanwhile it's already 30 mins after the shift started. I haven't reached endgame in this game yet but come on, having a clue and not wasting the 7 thru what 23 other peoples time is just common courtesy. I watch a video before doing leveling content dungeons because I'm not rude.

[ispano]

Obviously,lol, I just compared the two to demonstrate how bizarre it was. Are there Roe or Lalas' in RL? Are there giant man eating months? Goobues? if you tell your doctor you seen and slain any of the aforementioned in rl; he may refer you to another doctor if you get my drift.......

If you want the last word, you can have it. It is not that serious. We obviously agree on this, don't see why you keep dissecting the topic. You must be feeling some type of way "Shrugs"

You said that it's a game, not real life. But because of what this thread is about, the comparison is perfectly valid. You then chose to compare risking your life to risking your character's life, which has nothing to do with the subject. It's an entirely different comparison.

Comparing how people learn from the people who came before them, in real life to a game, is completely different from the comparisons you tried to make to dismiss it.