with this mindset the future looks dim

[Musashidon]

just did ifrit ex yesterday joined a pf group didn't know jack won at the end.

read? pah lease!

[Zeille]

just did ifrit ex yesterday joined a pf group didn't know jack won at the end.

read? pah lease!

Ifrit Ex is a joke of a fight for any class that isn't a healer. Pat on the back for you, I guess.

From what I can see, the vast majority of people against doing research before a fight in this discussion haven't even come close to difficult content. Get yourselves into turn 5 and "wing it" like you always do.

Nobody cares if you go in blind to easy shit.

[Musashidon]

Ifrit Ex is a joke of a fight for any class that isn't a healer. Pat on the back for you, I guess.

From what I can see, the vast majority of people against doing research before a fight in this discussion haven't even come close to difficult content. Get yourselves into turn 5 and "wing it" like you always do.

Nobody cares if you go in blind to easy shit.

i did, we kept wiping because people got the conflag/fireballs wrong not me

[Zeille]

i did, we kept wiping because people got the conflag/fireballs wrong not me

How did you know what to do for conflags and fireballs? Do you know how to handle Divebombs/Twisters/Dreadknight/Hatches? This information doesn't magically get absorbed by your brain through osmosis. If you don't know how to handle those things, I guarantee you will wipe your party.

Either someone told you what to do by typing out the strat (making someone else do the work you could have done yourself) in chat or you looked it up beforehand (research). Either way, that's not going in completely blind without knowing anything at all and winging it.

[Musashidon]

How did you know what to do for conflags and fireballs? Do you know how to handle Divebombs/Twisters/Dreadknight/Hatches? This information doesn't magically get absorbed by your brain through osmosis. If you don't know how to handle those things, I guarantee you will wipe your party.

Either someone told you what to do by typing out the strat (making someone else do the work you could have done yourself) in chat or you looked it up beforehand (research). Either way, that's not going in completely blind without knowing anything at all and winging it.

did i say i beat ifrit without wipes? that's the point we wipe i learn rinse repeat i did wing it.

[Zeille]

did i say i beat ifrit without wipes? that's the point we wipe i learn rinse repeat i did wing it.

That entire post was talking about turn 5. Like I said before though about Ifrit, nobody should have a problem if you wing easy content.

[Musashidon]

That entire post was talking about turn 5. Like I said before though about Ifrit, nobody should have a problem if you wing easy content.

that's my point we learned in t5 just like ifrit.

[Kuwagami]

How frustrated would you get if every time, you queued for your 'Trial' Roulette, you got 7 other people who had no idea what to do in the fight....and who not only that, 'wanted to learn as we go'/'experience it ourselves'? How patient could you be every time? Even if you didn't mind spending an hour wiping out, with maybe only a 40-60% chance of success at the end of an hour, how often would you now queue for trials in your DF? How much of your game play time would that eat up, if you spent an hour in one Trial Roulette every night? Would you still have time for other game activities you enjoy, or do you count on that queue not really taking more than 15-20 minutes tops? How frustrated would you be if you, spent an hour learning the mechanics in the first group and didn't clear, but now timed out and needed to re-start from scratch with a second group....again with 7 people who had no idea how to do the fight and wanted no input? How much of this could you take until you'd just want to win?

While you rise valid points and well constructed, this is wrong.
the sole purpose of the roulette is to help new players to get their way through the content. Not farming tomes quicker. Thus, you HAVE to expect to meet 7 people going blind in it. If you aren't expecting it, I suggest you stop the Trial roulette quick enough not to be disappointed.

snip

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Well, I didn't know that. That's the first company that I heard of allowing people to monetize their products on youtube freely..

How did you know what to do for conflags and fireballs? Do you know how to handle Divebombs/Twisters/Dreadknight/Hatches? This information doesn't magically get absorbed by your brain through osmosis. If you don't know how to handle those things, I guarantee you will wipe your party.

Either someone told you what to do by typing out the strat (making someone else do the work you could have done yourself) in chat or you looked it up beforehand (research). Either way, that's not going in completely blind without knowing anything at all and winging it.

Spoilers for people who wouldn't want to know

You know that these mechanics (twister excepted) aren't that hard to learn/handle even going blindly ? I did that with my static (inb4 : "not DF", it wasn't available back when we learned it, even though if I got my clear with 15% echo due to various reasons) and honestly, if you aren't tunnel visioning things, it's pretty easy to understand how they work.
=> conflags and fireballs are easy to figure out. Really. Only thing you might not find by yourself easily is the conflag feeding for slow ones (which then become quick ones, and are much more difficult to handle)
=> divebombs aren't that difficult either. Circle > twintania appears > dive. Now to avoid it, well Titan is harder. The only point of the "run-the-hill" is to aim the dive in a tiny arena so that you can go behind Twintania and get safe quicker. You could easily avoid it by strafing in the middle of the arena.
=> DS on the other hand are tricky to learn. Once you figure out the timer though, it's only a matter of practicing.
=> twisters are the hard part, I'll give you that. You'll take a lot of time to understand it if you go blindly. Though once you try to move and notice you're safe doing it, you're good again.
=>DK aren't difficult at all. Just need to notice that you have to focus fire (but conflags taught you that already). Figuring that 2nd place in enmity never get targeted though is close to impossible. It makes the fight a pure luck factor at this point.
=> hatching is the same kind of attack as Aetheric Profusion. I think you can handle it pretty easily with the collars without too many wipes.

Was every member of your team one who didn't watch a video / didn't read -any- guides about it? Didn't talk with anyone about it for a general strategy?

I only ask this because just one person spoils the philosophy. The moment that one person enters with knowledge, he shares it with others. You're not 'learning' at that point. The ones who truly learned T5 - are the ones who fought it before the World Firsts, because information was -so limited- and -so rare-

There are some people (or maybe I'm alone doing that) who just give information when asked to, and only to explain what happened. Things they could have noticed themselves on what happened just before.

[Sapphic]

While you rise valid points and well constructed, this is wrong.
the sole purpose of the roulette is to help new players to get their way through the content. Not farming tomes quicker. Thus, you HAVE to expect to meet 7 people going blind in it. If you aren't expecting it, I suggest you stop the Trial roulette quick enough not to be disappointed.

Here's the thing. Coil and Ex primals are not in the roulette. Pretty much everything in roulette can be summed up in a short sentance or 2 for new players.

[Kinseykinz]

While you rise valid points and well constructed, this is wrong.
the sole purpose of the roulette is to help new players to get their way through the content. Not farming tomes quicker. Thus, you HAVE to expect to meet 7 people going blind in it. If you aren't expecting it, I suggest you stop the Trial roulette quick enough not to be disappointed.
.

Not all content is created equal...and not ALL content is 'to help newbies'

Low Level/Storyline. Sure thing.

But High Level....starting to hit a grey area, by this point, there is a general expectation that you know how to play your job, and have done a little research. Still nothing in a high-level dungeon is so problematic most PuG groups shouldn't get through it...so really most people, myself included don't care if you're new to Haukke Manor HM...or Adamor Keep. We hope you listen if there's something about the battles you need to know, but most are understanding.

Trials....this is more 'hey help people get their relics' ...and not really, 'teach them the mechanics too while you're at it.' Not only that, with the exception of Moogle King, all of these battles are 'additional' content/sidequest fights...meaning you don't even need to do them to continue on with the main story. Duty Finder at this point is just a tool to assist the player in finding a quick group to get stuff done without having to sit around and wait for friends to log in or /sh for a group for hours. But still, if you are using the DF to 'shorten' your process or to avoid having to pull together a group to do said content with, then doing a 5-10 minute quick study of the mechanics isn't really too much to ask of you. Again, by this point in the game, you're supposed to have a dedicated group you play with to do content such as this with.

Expert: Teaching a couple minor battle things here and there no biggie, but this also isn't a 'help people clear' spot anymore. There is zero reason why anyone needs to do this content on their path to unlocking additional story etc. It only exists as a challenge and tome farm.

Lastly, you're only accounting for Duty Roulette bonuses...which I did of course, use in my example...but the bigger picture is, if everything is a slug-fest, with little odds of winning, people will just stop using the Duty Finder. Examples of this already exist in game. People know that it is highly unlikely to Clear/Win T5 or Extreme primals in the Duty Finder...therefore, serious players who can beat it simply don't queue in the DF for that content...meaning the only people you're apt to bump into are people who still need to clear it/are practicing it or an established group that is practicing and just needed 1-2 more people to fill their roster....the 'yeah I farm this in my sleep guy' is a rare sighting in these Duty Finder Queues. And since so few experienced players queue in this content, you get in these DF queues exactly what you supposedly want....fresh people with no real experience/outside knowledge to do battle with....and yet, I am pretty positive that by the point you think 'okay, I got it up to twisters now...' You really won't want to queue in DF to try to beat T5 anymore, because you will get frustrated that every new team you need to reteach, or sit through as they learn. So you'll either make your own static, or PF it with some description that says 'know at least up to twisters, baddies will be kicked, stay until we complete our duty' ....and isn't that a little ironic. As you expect people to be patient with you learning, but sooner or later you too will be like 'screw it, I just want a simple win.'

....unless you just like beating your head against a wall for months...then maybe you'll keep grinding and losing.

So expecting the same 'no worries, we'll keep wiping with you 'mr random stranger I don't know' until you get it in random DF Titan HM party is probably a little above and beyond what should be considered normal.

I also have no issues helping new people get through content....I just have issues with the expectation that I'm supposed to either teach you the mechanics or carry you though...or even worse, the random few who not only expect the group to be cool with their coming in ill-prepared, but refuse to be offered any help/suggestions and cause wipe after wipe/people to abandon forcing others to leave.

Nor do I expect random people I meet in DF groups to be really super talented/geared/skilled. I just expect average joes that have a basic understanding of the battle/how to play their role. A wipe or two is fine. 4+ due to ignorance is not.

And yes, I do pick and choose my DR's of the day based on what I feel like dealing with.