with this mindset the future looks dim

[Kewitt]

I try once or twice then Youtube, Find out the missing element.

[Kuwagami]

It bothers me because you should show some initiative and want to improve yourself not going in blind and hoping your gonna get carried. Now if i was experienced and saw 7 new people but who have at least made a little effort on watching a video I can help them improve by explaining little tidbits because sometimes watching a video and going into the actual thing can sometimes throw you off and sometimes you don't understand little bits of the video. I don't mind wiping for 90 mins if people are actually making an effort and there is some hope.

It's not because I go in blindly that I expect to get carried, thank you. Stop showing an "elitist jerk" side when you want to say something if you aren't one of those. Some people have good reflexes and can learn pretty fast, even dieing less than so-called "experienced players" who watched a video. But that's an other argument.


(on a side note : I often say, and am proven true on that, that "watching a video" nearly equals "going in blindly". You still die to stupid shit happening because it "wasn't on the video". Trusting too much what you watch/read over what you can experiment yourself is more detrimental to your experience than anything else)

Going in completely blind to something like Coil or EX primals via DF shows a complete lack of respect to your fellow players. You are showing that you literally don't give a damn that you are about to waste 7 other players time.

It bothers me, as a solo player, to see other solo players give us a bad name with this terrible attitude. You damn well deserve to get flamed if this is your mindset and you can bet i'll join in.

If you are a solo player, why are you playing a MMO

Joking aside, that sentence :

you are about to waste 7 other players time.

clearly shows that you aren't playing for the sake of playing. You can't waste time when you're playing. Or you're constantly wasting time when you're playing. Depends how you see it. Either way... the initial subject being "going blindly in DF", I think you might reconsider your point. Because taking your logic, by going in DF waiting for everyone else to know the fight, YOU are wasting your time.

[KenzieLynch]

Going in completely blind to something like Coil or EX primals via DF shows a complete lack of respect to your fellow players. You are showing that you literally don't give a damn that you are about to waste 7 other players time.

It bothers me, as a solo player, to see other solo players give us a bad name with this terrible attitude. You damn well deserve to get flamed if this is your mindset and you can bet i'll join in.

[AiChyan]

Going in completely blind to something like Coil or EX primals via DF shows a complete lack of respect to your fellow players. You are showing that you literally don't give a damn that you are about to waste 7 other players time.

Remembered a df garuda ex attempt with someone who came in with no knowledge and was pretty much a burden. They werent learning much either. Couldnt even reach spiny with them around. Eventually they left and we magically went through phases like it was nothing.

[F3rd1nand]

Why join a EX through DF then? I join these when I want to practice (heck, even if I want to win) but I don't go thinking that I'll reach a victory, but experience instead. If win..sweet. If not, it's part of the game, doesn't matter if it was messy.

If people mind, just read my message on page 13. I tried to put in perspective what players are still discussing about in these latest pages.

[NintenPyjak64]

If there's one lesson my father has always taught me, it's "You can't help others who aren't willing to help themselves"

I can see both sides of the argument, but really I have to side with those willing to do research beforehand. I don't mind teaching newer players if it were as simple as a 4 man dungeon, but for coil, where there's a multitude of mechanics that need thorough explanations, then going in blind is inconsiderate. This is an MMO afterall, you're not playing alone. You have to work together with those 7 other people and not work against them. whether it be PF or DF, it's not hard at all to do even a minuscule of research to know "Oh this will happen and my role can prevent it? OK!" and to learn to execute from there on out

And for the record, those people who upload video guides are trying to teach you, but you're blindly turning them away to have another PC teach you, either way you're being taught by somebody, so why not watch the video or read the guides? It makes learning the encounter easier on yourself (you know very basic parts of the fight which you can then learn from there) and the 7 other people (less people who'll yell at you or patronize you).

/2cents

[Clavaat]

-snip-

Well I said I was done but I just can't help myself.

Before using the term "Inconsiderate" to describe people who DF for BC/EX, consider this:

Maybe...

- They didn't know it was expected.
- They have confidence in their ability to adapt.
- They wanted to learn through gameplay.
- They felt that whoever they joined up with would help them, because so far players have been that way.

Now, consider the format in which you partook. A random selection of people from across several servers. The odds of any of them meeting the above criteria are likely, because this goes beyond just playing the game and knowing your job, but being aware of how people are going to feel towards your actions. Since the introduction of DR, I've noticed that people in instances up through the HM primals have been mostly positive. People say it's their first time and they don't really know what to do, someone gives a quick rundown, adapt during the fight, we clear it.

An example:

I joined a Trials DR last night on my WAR. The other WAR still in mostly AF, no relic, and said immediately it was his first time. No one jumped on him, I gave an annotated version of the fight: Phase 1 stand behind pillars like regular, kill the plumes, keep up debuffs. When adds spawn, Provoke+Tomahawk the Red line and face it away from everyone as best as possible, follow me and don't step in the green. Took less minute to write. At one point, he pulled the Red Line add away through the tornadoes, thinking it was the right thing to do. I quickly typed "back here, too far, just outside the green". He promptly corrected himself, along with one of the mages, and we cleared it no problem. No fuss. This is not the first time something like this has happened in any DR. Please note, the only reason I bring this is up is to clarify the above point that players generally will only have positive experiences and may develop the above expectations.

Now, all of a sudden, the expectations change when they hit EX primals and BC, but how are they to be aware of that given the previous circumstances? You can choose to handle it one way or another: Be agitated with the person for "wasting time", or be patient and understand where they might be coming from, and help out as best as possible. Be the better person. Once you get them through a try or two, they'll become better too.

I'm not saying I don't look up fights beforehand, mind you, I totally do. Even then, I'm not the biggest fan because usually they have misinformation, conflicting information, bad quality to the point you can't tell what is happening, etc. But I just think people need to take a minute and think about how others are actually behaving. I don't think anyone chooses to not watch videos/guides out of spite for others, but maybe I'm just too trusting...

[Astralos]

(on a side note : I often say, and am proven true on that, that "watching a video" nearly equals "going in blindly". You still die to stupid shit happening because it "wasn't on the video". Trusting too much what you watch/read over what you can experiment yourself is more detrimental to your experience than anything else)

I have to agree with this part. While watching a video guide can be helpful in some respects, I've seen tons of people run around like chickens with their heads cut off when something didn't go exactly according to what they saw. And there's also the added hazard of watching an outdated video with mechanics that have been removed, changed, or added.

[Geracia2]

if watching a video was required, there would be a youtube link under the Duty Finder. This is a game not your job.
/end "discussion"

[NintenPyjak64]

Snip

To be fair I was talking about Coil specifically and PF at the same time as DF. I try my damn near hardest to be patient with people, but since 2.2 dropped and the lockouts for Coil removed (reminder: It was not possible to solo queue at this time, only full party PF was possible), My patience practically went down the drain. Trivial fights became a complete chore. Because of this the only thing I ever use DF for now is just Expert roulette. I just don't have the patience to deal with it any longer sadly. I don't care if I get called "Elitist" or "Toxic"

I don't think anyone chooses to not watch videos/guides out of spite for others

A majority don't, but they don't do it so they don't get "spoiled" from what I'm noticing in this thread

When I watch a video I just do it to learn the mechanics. My group is starting to do T8 and a couple of weeks ago, all I could find on T8 sounded like gibberish. It wasn't until a recent video (I love this guy's video) That I finally understood exactly how the towers worked, how the homing missile and ballistic missile worked. What this video DIDN'T teach me was how to play SMN in T8. This I learned on my own with the basic knowledge of the mechanics. (and on top of that that gibberish started making much more sense)

What I'm trying to say is don't watch a video to copy paste what they're doing. Watch it to understand how to deal with the mechanics of the fight, and how to deal with mechanics safely.