with this mindset the future looks dim

[Tiggy]

I am not sure what your point is. I was responding to a comment that you had to research in FFXI. I was showing that it wasn't required.

It must have been easy not to research anything. Well with all the quest markers pointing you to the next quest object, the well written quest descriptions made it clear what you were supposed to do, and the map markers letting you know which npc's had story quests.


Oh wait....None of that was in the game meaning you had to research just to know certain quests even existed. Saying you didn't research is a flat out characterization of the entire FFXI experience.

[LunarEmerald]

Shouldn't be running coil blind. People are there to farm. By joining a farming group when you don't know it, you're essentially lying and are the one at fault.

The only time it's acceptable to join a party finder group when new is when they state it's a learning party or newcomers are welcome. You can join and try and wing it but if you screw up, it is your fault for not knowing the fight.

[Souljacker]

No matter what people may say with rose glasses, XI was not a hard game by any means. The difficulty of the game came mostly from the fact that wiping one single time meant game over until next week's entry, so the amount of tries you could do was severely limited.

I completely agree with you. It wasn't hard. It was just tedious. Multi-phase, multi-tank, tank swap, get out of bad, movement, change target - all this is new to the average XI player who never played in other games.

OP:
Do you *have* to look things up? Of course not, but you shouldn't expect strangers to hold your hand, either. Before you go into a job interview, do you look up a little bit about the company or do you expect the interviewer to explain everything to you?


That's the level of *basic* I'm talking about here. Know that the boss has some AoE, some adds will come, there's a rock to hide behind. This simple knowledge beforehand will help you to recognize what you are seeing when you actually do the fight. I personally feel that it's our responsibility as players coming into old content (content that has already been theorycrafted to death) to have at least an idea of what we might be facing. The resources are out there and while I appreciate the desire to experience something for the *first* time, does your first time have to become everyone else's second, third, fourth, and umpteenth wipe?

[LineageRazor]

Do NOT underestimate the power of Party Finder for putting together a group of like-minded players. Every time I've used it, I've gotten a party together in 15 minutes to an hour - often faster than most DDs can even get into a Duty Finder party!

When I want to go into new content blind, I form a party with the checkboxes for "newcomers welcome", "watch all cutscenes", and "slow and easy" checked. You'd be surprised at how quickly that will fill, and not all of the takers are going to be newbies as there ARE experienced folks out there who are happy to lend a hand.

Don't expect a quick win, though. A party full of newbies is going to struggle. But that's what you WANT, right, if you're going in blind? You want a challenge. You want to learn the fight yourself. So, this shouldn't be a problem. The only peoples' time that is being wasted is that of people who knew going in that it was going to be a tough fight.

I completely sympethize with folks who want to explore content without being "spoiled" to it ahead of time. I'm also sympethetic to folks who want to watch cutscenes in the context of the dungeons they are in, rather than back at the inn later. Party Finder provides a way to do this that does NOT rely on barging in on a group of total strangers and expecting them to bend over backwards to accomdate you. Their desires are no less important than yours. Yours are no less than theirs. Avoid conflict and drama by ensuring that you're partied with folks who share your desires.

[Timethiuas]

It must have been easy not to research anything. Well with all the quest markers pointing you to the next quest object, the well written quest descriptions made it clear what you were supposed to do, and the map markers letting you know which npc's had story quests.


Oh wait....None of that was in the game meaning you had to research just to know certain quests even existed. Saying you didn't research is a flat out characterization of the entire FFXI experience.

I have no idea what FFXI you played, but no, I did not have to go to the Wiki or any other internet publication to play the game.

[Garlyle]

You can already go into CT with very minimal knowledge except for a few key members and be fine.

CT is a somewhat special case. Due to the necessity of using Duty Finder to enter it, they can't really afford to put too heavy of expectations on every single player, as there's no realistically feasible way to actually get an "All-FC Crystal Tower" group or manage a gigantic party into it via Party Finder.

Admittedly this is why I'd like to see Binding Coil in DF only be there for ease of entry once you have a party, rather than for solo queueing in. As has been stated in the thread a few times, it's not too bad going into something like Haukke HM with randoms when one person's expecting to be new and the others want a clear, because it's easy to explain and guide them through; but Turn 4+ is just not the kind of content you want players on different pages being paired up with.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

Right, I was saying in reference to FFXI's triple alliance system, in that you had a lot more room for error by throwing bodies at it. I'd expect generally the same from any content greater than 8 members.

[KingOfAbyss]

Yeah it's pretty toxic environment some players create.

Watch the video
Don't want 1st timers
Want player with the best loot and have constantly down thing 1m times

It only gets worse and worse.

Which is the biggest con of end game being difficult and unforgiving.

Need to say more? No. Sums it up pretty well.

The more we teach people how to fish, they less people we have to feed. - Everyone will come at end game, so why not helping them becoming better so your own game time will be how you want it?

Teaching people, giving directions, making a better community? Ain't nobody got time for that!
Duh..

[Garlyle]

Right, I was saying in reference to FFXI's triple alliance system, in that you had a lot more room for error by throwing bodies at it. I'd expect generally the same from any content greater than 8 members.

Personally I'd love to see stuff that really pushes all 24 members of a team to succeed. But until we at least get the ability to sync parties into an alliance and queue that up, it won't happen.

That's a separate conversation though, I suppose.

[DarkStaoneDragon]

well let me see if I can explain this in a way that's understandable, I can watch a video for 15 hours, but I'll forget the whole thing, I learn much faster doing things first hand, with that said I just might forget about being "Rude" by asking what I need to expect in the fight.


Edit: I'll also NEVER go in as a tank first time since I have MNK now