with this mindset the future looks dim

[xenosuke1]

Ok, I believe a few points are crucial here:

Duty Finder is there to queue you with randoms in case you don't have the patience to create you own group in Party Finder due to either lack of patience or few players interested at that Primal/Dungeon/Raid at the time. So whoever uses it at the point they reach 50 is well aware of how there's a high chance to meet new players at said event and shouldn't, in any way, expect the newcomers to perform like said experienced players does. Be more open minded.

This is a online game, you're supposed to interact with others and enjoy the game content mostly in group (obviously), be it wiping or winning big time. Youtube guides or from any other source, could be required only through Party Finder.

EVERYONE in this game is paying to acess it and no one should cut their way of having fun because other's time is so "precious" to themselves. As I said previously, you're supposed to have fun by interacting with others by trying to archieve the common goal at that time, if you're so worried about the "time" issue, why even use DF? Make your own premade group with either FC, friends or Party Finder.

The argument of "other people times being < than the new player that haven't watched" in said new player's view, implies that they are egoistical? (That's what I understood). The said experienced people chose by their own will to DF it knowing the risk, whatever the case was. So imo, they're the ones being egoistical.

Now about the "asking how it works or what to do", what's the biggie? You can explain or not, do it and try to guide them and you may even earn some commendations at the end (if you care about these), do not and deal with any possible messy situations on the way.

And into courtesy, I believe that applies into being friendlier, people greeting you and you greet back. Newcomers take the initiative to tell they're new and don't know how to properly do it so others can know and maybe, the experienced could give some tips, maybe guide them through, etc (so what if that can happen multiple times? take the chance to become a more tolerant and patient person, if you're having a bad day just don't play in such kind of activity). That's what I see as gaming courtesy, not expecting them to watch something in advance, killing their fun of "finding out". For many it's not the same impact watching someone else doing it.

Ppl need some of dat Sayan pride. :P

this equals healthy community here, man i wish for the day that this becomes a reality in mmos, this person gets it this person gets it

[Amberion]

I appreciate the massive assumptions. It really shows just what kind of person you are, as well as how wrong you are. I've done the majority of end-game content with random people before ever running with my FC/guild, I've been taught everything from Garuda EX to T4 by random people, and will usually only run with FC/guild members when they set a day/evening aside for it. I return these favors (because that is what they are) by teaching other new people these fights.

Umm, way to take that out of context. That was when someone comented of how MMORPGs used to be.

I also appreciate the massive over-exaggeration here. I'd be curious to know why someone played every day of the year doing the exact same thing every day--or something comparable to it--without changing their routine.

Exact same thing? I'm sure people aren't just new in one part of the game. You can meet them in various places.

[Timethiuas]

Again, there's a difference between "I joined these people, we chatted, and when it came time to do this stuff they helped me fully knowing I didn't know yet" and "I joined a party of 7 random people all ready to kick ass and clear, but didn't feel like finding out what I was getting myself into".

The experience of a preformed party, where an agreement and understanding pre-exists, and going into an experience with random players, is a drastically different one.

I am not sure what your point is. I was responding to a comment that you had to research in FFXI. I was showing that it wasn't required.

[Swishytail]

Maybe SE should just add un-skippable cutscenes before every boss that show you how to win
the fight, this should solve everything. Take out all mystery, no learning necessary.

[Iriadysa]

I agree, except that when I joined most of them, they were already established. Kupo was one of, if not the top LS on Pandemonium by the time I was able to join. Caffeine was as well, and Snow was already off the ground. I came in and they showed me the ropes. I didnt' join and have them expect me to have read and memorized every fight.

Same with my Dynamis LS. While we were 2nd or 3rd to beat Dynamis Lord, they were well on their way when I joined and had no problem explaining what came next.

I played XI too. In fact, I was leading an 8 man Salvage group quite successfully, often doing parallel runs that included boss kills while a smaller party would farm NMs on another area.

We never really asked people to read on strategies with the content, you know why? Because none of the content had 6 different phases where every single party member was required to understand what the hell was happening.

No matter what people may say with rose glasses, XI was not a hard game by any means. The difficulty of the game came mostly from the fact that wiping one single time meant game over until next week's entry, so the amount of tries you could do was severely limited.

How many times did my Dynamis LS wipe to Dynamis Lord before we took him down? I think it was four attempts.

How many times did my first learning party for Titan HM wipe before I could finish it down? Dozens, and that party never made it.

In XI you could enter all content without knowing a thing about it because the dynamics of the fights were much simpler than XIV. It's not that I think XIV is a complex game, it's that XI is and always was a simple game. As long as some key people knew their role, you could be carried through a fight (assuming you knew how to play your job, obviously).

Dynamis is possibly the best example of this. I can assure you almost everyone in any Dynamis LS had no idea what to pull or when to pull it. Many probably never even saw where the mobs spawned from, and had no clue where the time extensions were. It was not required. This information was only needed to be known by the leader, the puller, the sac puller and someone that knew the best order to kill mobs. For the rest, all they needed to know was "Sleepga, make an assist macro, stun avatars if they wake up".

Before you think I'm hating on XI, I'm not. I played that thing for 7 years and quit right before Abyssea came out.

[Mysteltain]

Umm, way to take that out of context. That was when someone comented of how MMORPGs used to be.

Then that's my bad. You were quoting one of my posts and kept referring to "You" which I thought was directed at me rather than the plural.

Exact same thing? I'm sure people aren't just new in one part of the game. You can meet them in various places.

You're only new once in any given part of the game, and given that major content updates take anywhere from 2-4 months to happen, that's a lot of time spent running the same content. And still fails to acknowledge why they'd always encounter new players every day of the year. Most days if I run a bunch of dungeons I never meet someone new. I only meet someone new in 8-man content if I purposefully join a group meant for new players.

[MeiUshu]

DF is a blind date, you dont know when you go in IF you are going to enter with totally new, half new, speed runers, trolls (yep have seen that too), players that will drop you in the mid once they go their fix or much experienced....to be honest, it isnt my problem if you expect me to know and I dont, the game is meant to be played not to be cheated, I never watch videos, first I dont see a dam thing on them, even explanations dont speak to me.

Once you are in *real* too many variables are to bet taken into account. The oddity, are people that use DF and expect everybody to know everything. I do tell people if something is wrong IN MY OPINION, from there on, I knew by entering DF that things could go wrong even totally wrong, this is something I accepted by clicking *DF*...why would you blame anyone for something you potentially know it could happen and anyway decided to go on anyway ? you always have the choice to either enter or not, when you made that choice, you should deal with whatever is handed to you , THAT is the real challenge and a true real good player can and will adapt to whatever is around him an not the other way around..eh?

Just me though

Mei

[SendohJin]

Ok, I believe a few points are crucial here:

Duty Finder is there to queue you with randoms in case you don't have the patience to create you own group in Party Finder due to either lack of patience or few players interested at that Primal/Dungeon/Raid at the time. So whoever uses it at the point they reach 50 is well aware of how there's a high chance to meet new players at said event and shouldn't, in any way, expect the newcomers to perform like said experienced players does. Be more open minded.

This is a online game, you're supposed to interact with others and enjoy the game content mostly in group (obviously), be it wiping or winning big time. Youtube guides or from any other source, could be required only through Party Finder.

EVERYONE in this game is paying to acess it and no one should cut their way of having fun because other's time is so "precious" to themselves. As I said previously, you're supposed to have fun by interacting with others by trying to archieve the common goal at that time, if you're so worried about the "time" issue, why even use DF? Make your own premade group with either FC, friends or Party Finder.

The argument of "other people times being < than the new player that haven't watched" in said new player's view, implies that they are egoistical? (That's what I understood). The said experienced people chose by their own will to DF it knowing the risk, whatever the case was. So imo, they're the ones being egoistical.

Now about the "asking how it works or what to do", what's the biggie? You can explain or not, do it and try to guide them and you may even earn some commendations at the end (if you care about these), do not and deal with any possible messy situations on the way.

And into courtesy, I believe that applies into being friendlier, people greeting you and you greet back. Newcomers take the initiative to tell they're new and don't know how to properly do it so others can know and maybe, the experienced could give some tips, maybe guide them through, etc (so what if that can happen multiple times? take the chance to become a more tolerant and patient person, if you're having a bad day just don't play in such kind of activity). That's what I see as gaming courtesy, not expecting them to watch something in advance, killing their fun of "finding out". For many it's not the same impact watching someone else doing it.

Ppl need some of dat Sayan pride. :P

This was exactly the post that I wanted to write, would not have been nearly as eloquent though.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

Kudos to you for making the point I was afraid of making here haha. Besides the simple "Stun this", "Here's the SC we're using", there really wasn't that much I can recall. Kirin was kite, kill, kite kill. Also, you had full alliances for these kinds of things, so if you had a few who didn't know what was going on, it wasn't a big deal. FFXIV is completely different in that regard, although, CT and the expansion of 24-man raid content may change that a little. You can already go into CT with very minimal knowledge except for a few key members and be fine. Anyway, like you said, that's not a bash on FFXI, it was just different then. In some ways, it was more enjoyable because it was more relaxed.

[Amberion]

You're only new once in any given part of the game, and given that major content updates take anywhere from 2-4 months to happen, that's a lot of time spent running the same content. And still fails to acknowledge why they'd always encounter new players every day of the year. Most days if I run a bunch of dungeons I never meet someone new. I only meet someone new in 8-man content if I purposefully join a group meant for new players.

Ahh, me bad then. Haven't played the game in awhile. Just used from my own experience, and that is mostly 2-3 weeks after a patch that add content. And then you can have up to 10 runs where you meet new people. So used 3-4 as average.

Kirin was kite, kill, kite kill.

Well, there where Suzaku and Seiryu. Hundred fist and chainspell could wipe a party. Especially if your LS didn't have someone chainspell stun it. MY LS almost wiped once when someone didn't disengage from my shadow bind.