Now that we have everyone's opinion on PvP...

[Cendres]

Just would like to state that I don't play Final Fantasy for the PvP. To me this is purely a cooperative PvE experience and IF there should be some PvP I hope it's restricted to battle arenas and the like. I understand the appeal but it's not something I look forwards to in this game. Lots of others have it in my view.

As long as it's a side thing and it doesn't affect classes then sure I guess.

[Dranio]

I meant along with nerfing and buffing, (some) PvPers demand certain skills and/or removal of skills. Over time, such demands leads to the classes being almost all alike. FFXIV's a little different yes, but we won't know until the battle changes how that might play out.

You rarely see PvE players complain about skills directly. If it's not that useful, they simply don't use it. If there's another skill they could use, most will just compensate with what they have; they may or may not give suggestions in the forum. If the character is UP, they might complain about the class, or just say the game is too hard. If it's OP, few people will complain about that, as it benefits them and/or their party anyway.

Rift tried having a seperate soul for PvPers and said they wouldn't make ajustments for the sake of PvP. It didn't happen.

So, I'm just honestly asking, how would you keep them completely separate and not affecting each other?

Not that this post matters. SE will do what they think they need to do to make this game a success. I said before, there will always be things you do or do not like in an mmo. It's up to the individual to decide if the pros are enough in his or her own case.

In terms of nerfing/removing skills, SE needs to actually balance the skills, and seperately for PvE and PvP. Not listen to all the whiners screaming for everything, but do it themselves and not rush it through and screw it up worse then normal. Though the idea of the OP's is on the right track IMO, I think it should be in terms of the skills, not class for PvP and job for PvE. A good start with seperate balancing, but a I believe a wrong turn in how the skill set to use is chosen.

Honestly, it can be done. I am of the opinion that Guild wars did this the right way. There are simply 2 versions of skill, some being the same for PvE and PvP, some that are somewhat different for PvE and PvP, and others that are a lot different in how they work/damage/ect. for PvE and PvP.

It may be a B2P game, but it did many things right. Seperate balancing for PvE and PvP being one of them.

Note: this is my opinion and not to be taken as absolute fact.

[Dranio]

Just would like to state that I don't play Final Fantasy for the PvP. To me this is purely a cooperative PvE experience and IF there should be some PvP I hope it's restricted to battle arenas and the like. I understand the appeal but it's not something I look forwards to in this game. Lots of others have it in my view.

As long as it's a side thing and it doesn't affect classes then sure I guess.

I was under the impression that this is how they planned to implement PvP anyway. A battle arena, PvP games and such like that is they way I prefer PvP to be and I'm pretty sure SE already noted that that's the kind of way it'll be implemented, so I doubt you have anything to worry about. If XI is any example, I expecting nothing more then something like Ballista and/or Brenner ( don't know how close the two are game wise, I've only participated in Brenner, and that was a for fun ls PvP thing, we didn't actually play the game itself.)

[Balbanes]

Never been a fan of PVP, I do hope they keep the systems and balance seperate. I don't want to see "_____ skill was nerfed for PVP reasons!, and it now effects your PVE experience."

There is a simple solution to this. Skills can be made to work differently in PvP than PvE. There, no more nerfing PvE issues.

[Amadas]

Though the idea of the OP's is on the right track IMO, I think it should be in terms of the skills, not class for PvP and job for PvE. A good start with seperate balancing, but a I believe a wrong turn in how the skill set to use is chosen...

Honestly, it can be done. I am of the opinion that Guild wars did this the right way. There are simply 2 versions of skill, some being the same for PvE and PvP, some that are somewhat different for PvE and PvP, and others that are a lot different in how they work/damage/ect. for PvE and PvP.

What you say is certainly a big possibility and a viable plan, but hear me out:

As a PvE fan, the question in my mind is will PvE be mainly geared toward solo play(class combos) or party(jobs)? Both would be ideal, but how is SE going to have the time to make a group PvP system, a solo PvP system, a solo PvE system and a group PvP? Way more time and money than just determining which style would be the easiest to gear toward PvP?

my opinon: jobs/party play should get the most PvE because of instances, HNMs, storyline battles etc. Teamwork in PvE is more important than teamwork in PvP is basically what I'm saying

Therefore solo classes should be designated as the PvP style which may or may not be affected by PvE, because skills can be altered freely without affecting job and partying skills. Everyone who plays solo can basically be a one man party as it is and it's fair because everyone has access to the same skills.

I'm not saying PvPers can't party up; but it's way harder to organize a group plan the way classes are right now, and easier to just do your own thing to whoop some ass.

How would this effect PvE while playing solo? No idea.

since one balancing act already exists (classes vs. jobs, party vs. solo) why not keep the two scenes separate in terms of PvP. two birds with one stone. No balancing jobs for PvP, no balancing classes for PvE (or maybe a little for the latter)?it's simple and effective. do leve quests and behest solo, then kill people when you get bored/run out. To each its own skill set, no complications.

note: A lot of this opinion is based on the assumption that PvP will play a big role in end game which is based on my interpretation of Yoshi's words regarding end game content:

Along with PvP, we are also envisioning a large-scale PvE, but since we are not really at the stage where we can release information, I’d appreciate it if you just take this as "They're gonna do it!!" for now.

[Dyne]

Well, back in ffxi's ballista, it was nation vs nation scheduled to occur every hour in 3 places. You can join whatever country has the lower amount of participants to balance it out, and each group have their own linkshell just for pvp to communicate strategy and enemy position, etc... Personal linkshells are automatically removed at start of the battle. Non-participants and surrounding mobs cannot touch the players in any way. People can form a party and alliance, so even if you are not one of the bad ass killers, you can still play other roles that are equally or more useful, such as party healer, enfeebler, scout/bait, or petra farmer. People sit/heal to farm petra, which is deposited into receptacles to score points. People can also gain petra by killing players holding petras. Opposing team guards the receptacles to prevent people from scoring. The group that scores the most points win, also person with the highest contribution or highest kills get recognition.

The terrain, trees, rocks, and hills all play a crucial role in the strategy, as well as learning to use buffs, and sneak + invisible. One on one with a friend can be done in a secluded area, but it is not ideal, as it doesn't contribute to your group winning, and it is not guaranteed that someone else will not jump in.

Here is an example of a scenario, a scout sneaks in closer to your base, fires a cheap shot then runs away, and several of your members chase him. Once he gets to a corner, he stops, and invisible black mages pop out casts sleepga on the entire group. Then a red mage will paralyze, bind, blind, silence, gravity you, while the black mage starts casting thundaga III. At this point, you are horrified because your entire group is going to be slaughtered and any survivors can be picked off by the scout. Thundaga III goes off, and everyone has really low hp, but a white mage survives and immediately 2 hour ability Benediction, and suddenly you guys are back in the game. That is what is called an epic battle, which a lot of NA players missed out on by being a chicken when it came to pvp.

One thing I'd like them to add though that was missing in ffxi, would be the ability to build things like guard towers, walls, summon monsters, turn into dragons, seige weapons, and a castle that you have to protect. These things even DoH and DoL can do to participate in pvp.

[Eugenics]

I would love to see pvp in this game. But i don't think anyone in the FFXIV team has the balls to implement it. Most people on these forums would rather fight automainted mobs that can't think or surprise you in a fight.

[Felis]

Again like I've said a bunch of times now, 2 separate effect modes is a perfect solution; just a matter of SE deciding if they want to dedicate time to do it. (IE each spell/ability has one effect in PVP and another in PVE, so that PVP balance would never possibly affect PVE, because spell modifications for PVP would only change the PVP effect of the spell.) For instance CC lasting a shorter duration when used in PVP, or a spell being less damaging in PVP than PVE.

I like this idea. This would be like War of Emperium in Ragnarok Online, where a few Skills have on siege ground not the same effects as in the rest of the world (like magic spell damage decrease to 50%) or are complete deactivated (like Ice Wall not castable on siege ground). With this, SE can balance the PvP without to change the PvE gameplay, because the PvP would have own rules in a specific area.

[Tezz_Xivectro]

Too many MMO's try to use PvP as the selling point. As long as FF14 doesn't get to the point where you need to PvP to be the best at PvE then we should be fine.

Too many people are pushing for PvP, but SE really should add more mini-games over PvP, imo.

[Anima]

Simple solution: Give Modes for PvE and PvP like most person said. I don't think it's ZOMG HARD to do, and it seems a lot of people are getting the complete opposite Idea of what most people think, like someone who said OMG I'm gonna get PKed while crafting in town! rofl


PvE:Gladiator[PvE Mode]>>Party Paladin[PvE Mode]
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PvP:Gladiator[PvP Mode]>>Party Paladin[PvP Mode]

PvP Skills won't=PvE Skills Effect-wise.
I.E Sleep lasts 30 seconds in PvE. In PvP Sleep lasts 5 seconds.
A PvP Skill is too strong and people wants it to be nerfed, fine. They can just change the PvP Skill Effects and not the PvE one.
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If you make the Solo Mode be the PvP, Solo PvE'ers will suffer. So this is most likely the most effective we have now.
Yoshi already said "THERE WILL BE NO PK" therefore people don't have to worry about PK.
It would be cool even If PvP takes on a closed area/Instance.
XI did it, what it lacks is on the reward, so why can't they put it here?
I don't/am not expecting PvP to get the spotlight, I do believe it will take a lot of time, but starting early is nicer right?
PvP can be "VERY" fun and epic if they are done correctly(like what Dyne said)
Plus, It's fighting against humans so it's; Brain VS Brain.
I'm sure SE knows that PvE is a really important aspect for FF, but I'm sure they also consider PvP is one of the little aspect of MMO, and I believe they have what it takes to make a PvP that doesn't affect PvE the slightest bit.

Sorry If this made some people tick :P
Thanks for reading.