Archer auto-attack (Yes, please.)

[Richard]

To all the people FOR AA ranged attacks how would you deal with battle mechanics such as sleep/bind and other crowd control? Would you be able to manually click off of the mob or de-target fast enough before you broke CC? How would you Multishot or fully buff your weaponskills with Arrows constantly flying? How would you feel about running through arrows faster than you do now?

I'd like to hear some logical responses that aren't in the form of: "Oh, well SE can just design the game around Archer AA.""

[Cikala]

To all the people FOR AA ranged attacks how would you deal with battle mechanics such as sleep/bind and other crowd control? Would you be able to manually click off of the mob or de-target fast enough before you broke CC? How would you Multishot or fully buff your weaponskills with Arrows constantly flying? How would you feel about running through arrows faster than you do now?

I'd like to hear some logical responses that aren't in the form of: "Oh, well SE can just design the game around Archer AA.""

In any other MMO with AA and CC mechanics, using such an ability automatically turns off AA and some even de-target the mob. That's for both ranged AND melee btw. Granted I don't have a high rank in any class, but are you telling me that NO melee class has any CC abilities? As for buffing weapon skills, it's simple, AA shouldn't count as a WEAPON SKILL, therefore hitting a buff ability wouldn't effect AA, only your next weapon skill activated.

Arrow usage has been addressed already in this thread and others. It's not like you're going to use arrows that aren't fired at your enemy, and if SE takes the popular suggestion of making arrows unlimited it wouldn't be an issue regardless.

[Richard]

In any other MMO with AA and CC mechanics, using such an ability automatically turns off AA and some even de-target the mob. That's for both ranged AND melee btw. Granted I don't have a high rank in any class, but are you telling me that NO melee class has any CC abilities? As for buffing weapon skills, it's simple, AA shouldn't count as a WEAPON SKILL, therefore hitting a buff ability wouldn't effect AA, only your next weapon skill activated.

Arrow usage has been addressed already in this thread and others. It's not like you're going to use arrows that aren't fired at your enemy, and if SE takes the popular suggestion of making arrows unlimited it wouldn't be an issue regardless.

You obviously never played XI as that was not the case, nor was it in WoW. If you have to shadowbind or sleep or bind a mob, and that associated CC breaks when any damage is inflicted, AA that can't be controlled is a hindrance to said battle mechanics and such to the overall game.

In FFXIV buffs like Ferocity and Raging Strikes buff your next attack, not just your weapon skill. So while buffing raging strikes, ferocity, blindside, still precision or hawks eye you will essentially give your next AA that buff instead of the intended WS or multishot. Unwanted results and no way to control them.

SE does not make games where the best items are bought at a vendor and it probably wont ever be that way. Especially with ammo. With such a high focus on the crafting system in this game you really expect SE to remove multiple ammo synths just so you can have your ranged AA? Nope. Making arrows unlimited without any cost in one way or another is extremely broken balance anyways. What is this...House of The Dead Arcade where you can click off screen to reload your gun?

[Cikala]

While I did play FFXI, it was for a very short time due to RL issues. I did however play WoW for a few years as a hunter, and while quite some time ago AA would break CC if you weren't smart enough to de-target the mob, it is that way no longer. That all still doesn't address the issue of CC on melee classes in FFXIV however. Are there none? Or is there some mystical method that makes melee AA and CC okay but not for ranged?

Same issue with buff abilities. Does melee not have any? How do you expect them to deal with it? Why do you seem to think that ranged and melee can't deal with these issues in the same way?

Infinite arrows or not, I'd still prefer AA on my archer. I don't feel that I will go through significantly more arrows, and even if I do, that just means more damage, so why would anyone QQ about it?

Edit---

Just for the record, I don't have any issues with the combat system the way it is. It's different and I like it. However I don't feel that melee classes should get AA when archers won't. No, I don't want to just engage an enemy and afk kill stuff. But if melee classes get the convenience of basic auto attacks why shouldn't everyone?

[feint2021]

In FFXIV buffs like Ferocity and Raging Strikes buff your next attack, not just your weapon skill. So while buffing raging strikes, ferocity, blindside, still precision or hawks eye you will essentially give your next AA that buff instead of the intended WS or multishot. Unwanted results and no way to control them.

Other classes that gain AA will be able to buff before a ws and so will archer. Multi shot could simply be readied while being disengaged. Also, It's not incredibly hard to avoid breaking CC.

[Physic]

Other classes that gain AA will be able to buff before a ws and so will archer. Multi shot could simply be readied while being disengaged. Also, It's not incredibly hard to avoid breaking CC.

trying real hard to add an AA, when its use is pretty limited.
disengage? you realize they said AA has no toggle? just by getting close to a target we will start AAing how can you do a buff while disenaged? buff random AA goes off.
They could nerf your basic attack damage to AA levels, and then your multishot also gets nerfed.

You still havent event touched on the ranged attacks pause you so that you cant easymode kite monsters forever. If they make it so you can shoot while moving, they need to lower your movement speed. If they lower your engaged movement speed they have to lower everyone elses. if you lower everyone elses, they can dodge half the aoes/cones, charging WS they could before.

All in all ranged AA in this game would require way too many changes, and be exploitable super kiting. It also doesnt work with how they said AA works for other classes.

You also gain no benefit from AA and lose most of your power.

And realistically the buff situation is a problem i worry about for melee as well. i wish could have no AA, because it looks like it does absolutely nothing for pug, who will use flurry or light strike more than heavy strike in either attacker or defender builds.

you rangers are the lucky ones honestly.

[feint2021]

trying real hard to add an AA, when its use is pretty limited.
disengage? you realize they said AA has no toggle? just by getting close to a target we will start AAing how can you do a buff while disenaged? buff random AA goes off.
They could nerf your basic attack damage to AA levels, and then your multishot also gets nerfed.

You still havent event touched on the ranged attacks pause you so that you cant easymode kite monsters forever. If they make it so you can shoot while moving, they need to lower your movement speed. If they lower your engaged movement speed they have to lower everyone elses. if you lower everyone elses, they can dodge half the aoes/cones, charging WS they could before.

All in all ranged AA in this game would require way too many changes, and be exploitable super kiting. It also doesnt work with how they said AA works for other classes.

You also gain no benefit from AA and lose most of your power.

And realistically the buff situation is a problem i worry about for melee as well. i wish could have no AA, because it looks like it does absolutely nothing for pug, who will use flurry or light strike more than heavy strike in either attacker or defender builds.

you rangers are the lucky ones honestly.

I'm aware that the mechanics would be different than that of melee classes. Although there is no toggle this can be easily addressed. Just make it so abilities don't automatically engage you in combat mode just like in FFXI. I honestly don't understand why all abilities and magic engage you in combat mode which is a very annoying feature in FFXIV. I'll agree with your statement that AA would require many changes as it already is for melee classes. SE has said that 1.8 is just the first update that will rework the battle mechanics and future updates will future improve it. So hopefully this is something they'll consider further down the line (so your pug wont be just sitting there forever).

As for kiting....I mentioned in FFXI that players couldn't shoot while running. This is true for other MMO's as well. It's not very hard to address this issue.

Once the stamina bar is removed I'll just be making a /wait macro that'll shoot 2-4 times until they give players something better.

[Xenor]

In FFXIV buffs like Ferocity and Raging Strikes buff your next attack, not just your weapon skill. So while buffing raging strikes, ferocity, blindside, still precision or hawks eye you will essentially give your next AA that buff instead of the intended WS or multishot. Unwanted results and no way to control them.

Ferocity is a lancer buff in case you hadn't noticed. Should lancers not get auto attack either?

the thing your not getting here, is archer doesnt play the way you think, and it doesnt play like ffxi Ranger. AA is less important than AA is for mages, for archer.
As soon as you hit 20 and do the quest and buy multishot the entire plastyle of archer shifts. Archer as it is, is a mellee nuker, and it is not from the use of weapon skills.
Archers whole dps playstyle is based around applying multiple buffs to multiple shots, multishot, quick knock barrage, trifurcate. they actually pick their shots, the higher they get, the likely hood that they will shoot a stream of light strikes diminishes greatly.
Archer is all about ability use over AA, their WS are nothing alone, the Ws are basically utility skills. Its not about replacing multishot with a WS, because archers dont use TP for thier major damage, they use abilities and basic attacks for that.
Archer picks thier shots. firing arrows pointlessly isnt the style of archer in this game, and it is actually a fairly good mechanic, it simulates an archer requiring preparation to make best use of its damage, while still giving the freedom to attack whenever they choose.

Some classes just peak late, you cant really understand them until you get more skills, seriously before you think how
archer should be, i suggest you get it to 30+, and experiment with multishot, trifurcate barrage and quick knock with various buffs. high level archers by and large rarely use light shot outside of multiple arrow skills, and without some kind of buff. for single shots they may use one light to get to some tp threshold, or heavy shot for utility and damage. Turning archer into a AA and TP attack class is a step back.

You should try playing ARC before you try acting like you know how to play it. Archer does not, ever rely on Multi Shot for damage after the initial engaging of the mob. If you're using Multi Shot after you've engaged a mob then you're doing it wrong.

Each arrow knocked with Multi Shot uses more stamina than an arrow just fired off on its own. Sure buffing those shots will create a net benefit but if you're playing the class right you won't ever have buffs available for normal shots. Buffs will always be far better put to use in weapon skills.

If you're not getting 1000 TP for a weapon skill every 30 seconds to use your Raging Strike with then again, you're doing something wrong. Probably sat there idling to avoid using precious arrows while your party does the work.

There's simply no valid argument against it.

[Gail]

To all the people FOR AA ranged attacks how would you deal with battle mechanics such as sleep/bind and other crowd control? Would you be able to manually click off of the mob or de-target fast enough before you broke CC?...

You're the hunter that always broke my sheep aren't you?