Archer auto-attack (Yes, please.)

[Cutriss]

I'm going to try to break this discussion out into its own thread.

Archer (and any other future ranged classes such as Musketeer) should have auto-attack. It doesn't make sense that melee classes will no longer have to hit 11111111 over and over, but archer will still retain this. It makes it more difficult for players playing Archer to communicate during battle, since they will have to stop firing in order to type in the chat window. It also means that network connectivity will factor heavily into DPS calculations for archers. If the client does not release the attack button in a timely fashion, then the archer will be firing at a slower rate.

There have been no sensible arguments made against Archer auto-attack that have not been addressed.

Ammunition cost - Depletion of ammunition will occur no faster than if the player was having to manually fire each shot. Auto-attack will not simply force the player to keep shooting after a target is dead, no more than a Marauder would keep swinging his axe after his target has been felled.

Overpowered class - This should be adjusted in the relative class calculations, and not addressed by hampering the playability of the class overall.

Melee auto-attack - By having ranged classes auto-attack with their ranged weapons, this mitigates the debate over whether or not an archer should attack bare-fisted, an act which the Twelve currently frown upon.

Buff stacking - A ranged attacker (as with any melee attacker) should be able to turn off auto-attack as desired in order to use actions without automatically re-entering auto-attack. If this is a problem for ranged attackers, the same problem should apply to melee classes as well.

Sleep/Shadowbind - See above. This problem affects melee classes just as much, and therefore should not be an argument against ranged auto-attack.

Mobility - Auto-attack would not and should not impede the mobility of a ranged attacker any more than it would impact a melee attacker. A gladiator can dance around a goblin all day long, hoping to dodge Bomb Toss, and it will not impact his ability to swing his weapon. A conjurer may complete a short marathon during the time he is casting Blizzard III. There is little reason why an archer should not be able to reposition himself during an attack, and mobility is part of the "theme" of ranged attackers anyway. For those that believe that firing a bow while moving is difficult/impossible, I would agree, but then also point to numerous fantasy depictions of running archers, as well as the historical evidence of horseback archers (in both Native American and Japanese history).

I would propose that a Steadfast-like effect be granted to ranged classes to increase their accuracy, and that as part of class balancing, the overall accuracy of ranged classes be reduced to compensate. In effect, you'll be able to continue firing as you reposition yourself, but the encouragement will be to stand your ground.

This thread is not about daggers vs barefist attacks. There's already a thread for that here.

[SeraviEdalborez]

3 words:
Pre-attack buffs.

[Cutriss]

3 words:
Pre-attack buffs.

3 words:
Turn off auto-attack.

Or is that four?

[MagicofGaia]

3 words:
Turn off auto-attack.

Or is that four?

I would be open to a system for archer that let's say:

-hit 1 to engauge auto attacking
-Cd's are ready, hit 1 again to disable auto attack
-use attack buffs
-use special attack
-hit 1 again to resume auto attack

[Xenor]

3 words:
Pre-attack buffs.

Yeah, because archer is the only class that uses attack buffs. :roll:

The fact we were getting auto attack with bare fists nullifies any argument like that anyway because guess where that mob is when you're soloing as an ARC. It's up close. So not only do we not get auto attack with out main weapon we'll be forced into auto attacking with fists for what will probably be gimped damage (they don't want to make ARC fists on par with PUG after all).

Not giving ARC auto attack is one of the worst decisions they're making with this battle system and it has killed many people's interest in patch 1.18. Only people who want this game to become FFXI-2 seem to like the idea.

There's simply no valid argument against it.

[SeraviEdalborez]

There's simply no valid argument against it.

There's simply no valid argument for it, either.

Edit to above: Buffed multishots are the greatest bang for your buck. I don't even bother with regular arrows unless I'm desperate for the TP, and even then just Heavy Shot. Invigorate, passerby mobs (for NMs), and Multibuff is a winning formula as it is.

[Xenor]

There's simply no valid argument for it, either.

Edit to above: Buffed multishots are the greatest bang for your buck. I don't even bother with regular arrows unless I'm desperate for the TP, and even then just Heavy Shot. Invigorate, passerby mobs (for NMs), and Multibuff is a winning formula as it is.

There's many valid arguments for it, you just refuse to listen. Unfortunately for you any argument against it applies to every class, not just ARC. Either no classes should have it or they all should.

No, they simply aren't best bang for buck, unless you're talking literally bucks, as in you spend less gil on arrows. Even then it's debatable as you can spend 0 on arrows if you just stand there throwing rocks. But I'll assume you're talking damage.

Unless it's taking you minutes to get 1000 TP then you shouldn't be using Multi Shot mid-fight. With Invigorate you should be getting 1000 TP far more than you can buff your weapon skills nevermind only once per 30 seconds. Just what are you doing to get TP so slowly?

Multi Shot is a useless ability after you have engaged the mob with your initial strike. I only use it mid-battle if I am over-flowing with stamina due to a battle regimen filling my bar, even then it's not getting buffed because my buff will have either been used in the regimen for powerful damage or it will be used on my next weapon skill.

[Physic]

There's many valid arguments for it, you just refuse to listen. Unfortunately for you any argument against it applies to every class, not just ARC. Either no classes should have it or they all should.

No, they simply aren't best bang for buck, unless you're talking literally bucks, as in you spend less gil on arrows. Even then it's debatable as you can spend 0 on arrows if you just stand there throwing rocks. But I'll assume you're talking damage.

Unless it's taking you minutes to get 1000 TP then you shouldn't be using Multi Shot mid-fight. With Invigorate you should be getting 1000 TP far more than you can buff your weapon skills nevermind only once per 30 seconds. Just what are you doing to get TP so slowly?

Multi Shot is a useless ability after you have engaged the mob with your initial strike. I only use it mid-battle if I am over-flowing with stamina due to a battle regimen filling my bar, even then it's not getting buffed because my buff will have either been used in the regimen for powerful damage or it will be used on my next weapon skill.

i have been playing with 3 archers now from the time this game was in beta, i have leveled it to like 23 myself, but it was redundant at that point, i had already seen the damage bonus.

the first problem with your theory is you are not thinking about the way stamina works, yes multishot uses more stamina than light shot, but buffs also use no stamina, buffs are basically regen stamina while getting more damage. you are basically doing more dmg while waiting for stamina.

heres the difference, you can apply more accuracy, more dmg, and thus get more tp back with your next 3 shots, the stamina costs are payed in full by the buffs. if the stamina cost of light shot to multishot is in a ration of 1 : 1.5, but doing buffs gives you 2x damage and more accuracy, then it is worth it, the time wasted is an illusion because you have to wait for stamina anyhow.
quick knock and barrage dont get as much out of the buffs as multi shot/trifurcate does, quick knock also has a long cooldown. I would only put those buffs on Weapon skills when im using them in BRs, and since raging is like 30 seconds, you can prolly use them on both.

you are one of the few high level archers who believes in single shots over multi shot, I didnt do all the math, i cant say you are 100% wrong, but just think of this, if buffs are worth anything at all, how much more worth it are they on something that applies them 3 times, that is more than worth the extra stamina imo.

some archers put them all on one attack, some of them split them up, but almost all the dudes i see prefer the multishot technique, even in combat, and they are pulling high comparitive dmg to everyone else.

the only downside i see to multishot in battle is extremely large hate generation from buffs. honestly the WS on archer are not doing enough dmg to make them special, they basically do similar dmg to everyone elses Weapon skills, the big dmg is coming from the multishot/trifurcate + buffs, an archer fully buffing quick knock basically is a little weaker than me fully buffing victimize, or doomspike, but a fully buffed multishot is doing huge dmg and generating throw away tp. if i was an archer id just let other people finish the BRs with all thier buffs and get my dmg on my regular attacks.

and no, archers with buffing dont get tp slowly, in fact tend to have too much TP, just burn the tp up.

since tp is based on damage, the increase in damage on multishot also equals insane amounts of tp. invigorate is nice on the side, but so not needed, id rather spend that stamina on multishot.

[darkstarpoet1]

There's many valid arguments for it, you just refuse to listen. Unfortunately for you any argument against it applies to every class, not just ARC. Either no classes should have it or they all should.

No, they simply aren't best bang for buck, unless you're talking literally bucks, as in you spend less gil on arrows. Even then it's debatable as you can spend 0 on arrows if you just stand there throwing rocks. But I'll assume you're talking damage.

Unless it's taking you minutes to get 1000 TP then you shouldn't be using Multi Shot mid-fight. With Invigorate you should be getting 1000 TP far more than you can buff your weapon skills nevermind only once per 30 seconds. Just what are you doing to get TP so slowly?

Multi Shot is a useless ability after you have engaged the mob with your initial strike. I only use it mid-battle if I am over-flowing with stamina due to a battle regimen filling my bar, even then it's not getting buffed because my buff will have either been used in the regimen for powerful damage or it will be used on my next weapon skill.

multishot+ferocity to start the fight, follow with trifunicate+raging strike+hawk eye, followed by multishot. those 3 attacks together do massive damage when done back to back. if you use just those 3 in that order while farming mobs your rank do not even make it to you and if they do they are close to death.

what need does an archer have for auto-attack again? for me it is 22131221 and most fights are over and if not there is always 4 or 5 which is barrage and quick nock because by then my tp gauge is full so i have free reign to do whatever i need to.

[SeraviEdalborez]

The removal of the core basic attacks in their entirety for the 4 other melee classes implies AA won't be a toggle. True, passive/auto switch has been stated to undergo changes that will make it more fluid, but that's not seamless. In fact it's kind of worse than what we have now, except that stamina would no longer be a factor, by a second or two. This is assuming...
Now: Buff, shoot
Proposed: Disengage, buff, re-engage, wait for AA to kick in (shoot)
What will be: Buff, shoot