Best Gear in Coil needs to end

[SDaemon]

And this is one of the potential problems. If too many of the coil crowd start setting the bar of entry above 101, then this starts to impact the ability of anyone who doesn't choose to do coil to participate. I don't know if that sort of thing is healthy for the rest of the game.

Except nothing is stopping the players who don't meet that "bar of entry" (don't really agree with this phrase as it implies that you must group with those players setting this threshold) from banding together and progressing upwards. i90 is more then enough for any bunch of players to get together, learn and progress above that i101 you spoke of.

[Giantbane]

Except nothing is stopping the players who don't meet that "bar of entry" (don't really agree with this phrase as it implies that you must group with those players setting this threshold) from banding together and progressing upwards. i90 is more then enough for any bunch of players to get together, learn and progress above that i101 you spoke of.

No, when Ramuh is released, it won't prevent the i90 players from doing that fight. However, it may encourage those who do coil to stick with other coil players by only running in 101+ PF groups. And i'm not sure it's good to encourage players to segregate themselves from the rest of the population all the time. And it's certainly less ideal if you're in the situation where you're judged to be not good enough to run with a party finder group, purely because you choose not to do coil.

I mean it's not like coil players can't do this already. They can just choose to only run with their static or FC members if they choose to. If they're really determined to run with coil only players, they can just check the gear of whoever joins. In 2.1, if you were in coil you probably had at least 1 piece of allagan gear, same would be true for high allagan in 2.2. But those ways require you to be a little more proactive in segregating yourself from playing with others. But when it's so easy to just put up a PF with 101+, you may see more people doing it.

Demanding top tier gear like people is on this thread is like a person who worked hard trough college, graduated, and with dificulty managed to get a respectable job with a good salary, then have a lazy person that din't work or made any effort at all and just demands to have a job with a equivalent salary.

You do understand the differences between a video game where you pay for entertainment, college where you go to learn, and a job where you work and somebody pays you ... right?

[ispano]

You do understand the differences between a video game where you pay for entertainment, college where you go to learn, and a job where you work and somebody pays you ... right?

And do you understand the similarities? Just because something has differences, doesn't mean it can't be compared.

[Giantbane]

And do you understand the similarities? Just because something has differences, doesn't mean it can't be compared.

In general, yes. In this specific instance, no. Which similarities do you feel are appropriate here.

[Bigpurpleharness]

You do understand the differences between a video game where you pay for entertainment, college where you go to learn, and a job where you work and somebody pays you ... right?

Dude, you would be truly surprised at how many don't.

[SarcasmMisser]

No, when Ramuh is released...

This is legitimately a good point, an effect of the ilevel difference means that ilevel at least for now is an indicator of player skill, and you could set a pf group with a certain ilevel and reliably only get decent players. Of course not to say that skilled people won't be excluded but it's aside the point because clear only groups in pf try to be exclusive anyway. People won't have to try and scare people in pf messages because there's a effective way to find the people they want, they have useful tools.

Of course I doubt this would remain the case for 2.3 as this is a vertical progression game which everyone forgets when they moan like they are going to be i100 forever. It's just natural that raiders get better gear options first, and more options come later

[Giantbane]

This is legitimately a good point, an effect of the ilevel difference means that ilevel at least for now is an indicator of player skill, and you could set a pf group with a certain ilevel and reliably only get decent players. Of course not to say that skilled people won't be excluded but it's aside the point because clear only groups in pf try to be exclusive anyway. People won't have to try and scare people in pf messages because there's a effective way to find the people they want, they have useful tools.

See, it's very tempting. So easy to separate the people who are skilled from those who might be skilled.

It will be disappointing if too many of the groups at the beginning of 2.3 (arguably the best time to run it while everyone's learning) start to adopt this practice

It's just natural that raiders get better gear options first, and more options come later

Raiders pay the same monthly fees, no? And this isn't entitlement?

[ispano]

See, it's very tempting. So easy to separate the people who are skilled from those who might be skilled.

It will be disappointing if too many of the groups at the beginning of 2.3 (arguably the best time to run it while everyone's learning) start to adopt this practice

Raiders pay the same monthly fees, no? And this isn't entitlement?

They pay the same, but they put more effort and "work" into it. Yes, I used the word work. It wasn't the players who decided games should reward you more if you do more difficult content, it was game creators.

You pay the same, that doesn't mean you get the same without the same effort. Paying just gives you the same opportunities.

[Giantbane]

They pay the same, but they put more effort and "work" into it. Yes, I used the word work. It wasn't the players who decided games should reward you more if you do more difficult content, it was game creators.

You pay the same, that doesn't mean you get the same without the same effort. Paying just gives you the same opportunities.

It is my understanding that the developers changed "the best gear available to everyone" to "the best gear in coil" solely because they wanted more people to attempt coil.

I'm curious what they would do if they didn't see a significant increase in the number of people doing coil.

[Gormogon]

It is my understanding that the developers changed "the best gear available to everyone" to "the best gear in coil" solely because they wanted more people to attempt coil.

I'm curious what they would do if they didn't see a significant increase in the number of people doing coil.

What just about every MMO does, nerf it or find ways to tone it down and make it more mainstream and accessible. People already complain about DF + Echo yet there's no other alternative that will get the rest of the community to try and tolerate difficulty content like some Primals and Coil that is not fun at all to do. Which is a shame because there's way to get people to attempt coil but those methods are long forgotten it seems.