Nerfs are making the game less fun for "many" hardcore AND casual players

[JTribal]

Haven't had time to read all of the comments, but yeah, echo buff can be turned off.

It does suck for some of the dungeons that were nerfed (Demon Wall - No bees, etc.).

Too bad there isn't a way to switch them back to the original difficulty for higher rewards =/

[Kazumac]

If veteran players have any issue it would be that they can't acquire the roulette tomes at lightning speed

Exactly! That's the whole reason they are there. If you take away the speed, then the veteran players will go to other content that is more efficient for getting their tomes.

SE is trying to make the content attractive to people who no longer need it. By reducing the clear speed... It will discourage people from running it. Why do you see some players drop group at the beginning of Lost City? Because it's slower than brayflox for getting their tomes...

I'm not saying it isn't annoying for new players, it is. But slowing down the run by reducing ilvl on gear is just going to swap one problem for another.

[Arkista]

Discourage how?

I don't know if you ever played FFXI, But trying to get stuff done in that game after everyone beat it took forever. There wasn't much incentive to do missions again unless a friend needed help. If SE implemented some kind of stat cap out side of level sync, Then new players would have to wait a long time to get stuff done. The only thing that keeps veterans running that content is the daily bonus. So if SE had a stat cap and it took twice as long to get those 100 tomes people would just stop doing them. You could do 3-4 myth run in brayflox HM in the time it takes to do CM/Preat.

[SDaemon]

I don't know if you ever played FFXI, But trying to get stuff done in that game after everyone beat it took forever. There wasn't much incentive to do missions again unless a friend needed help. If SE implemented some kind of stat cap out side of level sync, Then new players would have to wait a long time to get stuff done. The only thing that keeps veterans running that content is the daily bonus. So if SE had a stat cap and it took twice as long to get those 100 tomes people would just stop doing them. You could do 3-4 myth run in brayflox HM in the time it takes to do CM/Preat.

Sounds to me like an issue with reward balance. Personally rather then buffing roulette rewards I feel brayflox should be nerved but egh not really the topic of the thread.

[MythToken]

How bout you read the title of this thread and then get back to me

I did, you can't be both, and you can't speak for a group of players that you currently are not.

[MasamuneBranford]

Democracy doesn't work. You heard it here first. The president can't be the voice of many.

[MythToken]

You pretend to know how hardcore players feel about echo. I'll tell you, they do not care.


Sorry you showed up late to the party, but we drank all the beer.

[PixelPirate]

"I'm casual and hate the nerfs/buffs!" said no casual I've ever known. You are a unique person OP with a unique problem. Oh wait, can't we just turn off the buff? Oh well, sounds like it really sucks for you. Have you ever considered playing a hardcore game, one that is not as easy as FFXIV?

[Gormogon]

Sounds to me like an issue with reward balance. Personally rather then buffing roulette rewards I feel brayflox should be nerved but egh not really the topic of the thread.

It's an issue of a mixture of many things.

Sadly hardcore content is a thing and that will always only apply to those willing to put the time, effort, and have either the determination or tenacity to keep at it while it is still considered relevant. Eventually it literally just becomes part of the competitive scene. That will never apply to casual players.

Casual players rarely ever get content in the current mmo designs to meet that long lasting criteria that raiding has. Simply because it's not easy to "consistently" make content for them in a timely manor. It can be done but Main Scenario quests + Hildebrand + beastman dailies + primals + dungeons + CT + more story related stuff is easier to beat and experience than Raiding unless you're part of that competitive hardcore demograph.

The only way to balance this is by making actual long term casual content that relies on difficulty instead relies on time and has a steady progression flow that doesn't revolve around hardcore raiding difficulty and one of the simplest ways to accomplish this is through open world dungeons. As an example of this basically compare Twintania vs Behemoth/Odin FATE. The offset becomes instead of being restricted to 8 skilled and geared people to down content you are instead restricted to how many bodies with skill and gear you can throw at the beast and for the most part skill isn't needed.

Edit: Apart from open world dungeons if they designed different events that last two hour at most to complete per day throughout the day that has steady progression and relevance to the game can also have it's own appeal. Such as mini events that grant daily gold, materia, seals, ventures, and so on as long as it is fun and has appeal to relevant content progression. I don't mean challenge logs or monster farming because those are tedious design mechanics. A better alternative would be monster arena where you go to 1 place and do these dailies. Personally I have high hopes for Golden Saucer to be that which will be content casual players can do and enjoy throughout the day.

Sure we can find middle ground and push the idea of "softcore" raiding but what's the point of patronizing casuals this way? Since elitist wont accept it and they will still be considered casuals for taking a progressive instead of throwing themselves continuously to new raid fights until they figure it out since the luxury of how to videos aren't up that first week. So there's little to no point in trying to pass the idea some players just wanna group up and have fun and not the one found in competitive environments.

[SDaemon]

Not sure why you quoted me....