My thoughts on Battle Reform {Jobs}

[AlexiaKidd]

Anyone who played Marauder during launch and equipped dark spells can kiss that sweet Dark Knight with a 2H sword goodbye. You get Marauder -> Dark Knight... Welcome to DRK with a 2H Axe. Having fun yet? No?

This is exactly my problem with the Armoury system, the whole Class=Weapon thing would have been fine if they stuck to their guns and spent time fleshing it out and fully developing their original vision. As it is now they are moving away from that vision as fast as their little fingers can type new code, further restrictions on cross classing, removal of physical level and now Job system shoehorned in on top of it all.

Just drop Weapon=Class and make Classes actual Jobs not bound to a weapon style so we can equip a variety of weapons on that Class and then have the Jobs be advancements of that Class.

I want a DRK to be able to use Scythes, Great Swords, Great Axes, Swords etc. to be bound to a single weapon on a traditional Job is a stupid move and if the reason for it is the Armoury system then just drop it already.

[Cairdeas]

^ Dis right here.

[Cichy]

I wish DRK would just be a separate class, I'd like to lvl that to cap if they sticking with this direction. Not lvl marauder "boom" you're a drk

[Arasiel]

Well if the do this whole you class just equips on these "advanced jobs" it could turn out pretty bad. I understand the foundation is Gladiator, Tham, ect.. but people rage quit under this foundation. You knocked out the supports and started over except you trying to use this old crutch and its going to repeat history.

[NefGP]

This is pretty much my problem with these reforms as a whole: They're completely scrapping Komoto's idea to appease the masses, which is a shame when XIV was supposed to be his baby. Had they just listened to us in the first place and not prematurely launched the game, it might have all worked out.

Am I the only one who feels like XIV is losing its soul in this update? I liked the idea of creating your own class. If I wanted to play an MMO with a more traditional job system, I'd play XI - and I do. In fact the only reason I haven't really been on XIV in a while is because XI has been seeing vast improvements. Then, right as my interest in XIV is peaking again, I come back to find this nonsense.

Yes, it's all largely speculation and we'll have to wait and see how it plays out on update day but I just don't feel as confident about XIV as I do XI. Maybe it's the 8 years of their work on XI influencing me because the new devs have only been at it for about a year and have done a fantastic job of things while this game is still struggling just to stay afloat.

[AlexiaKidd]

I would be bothered if they went with the original idea or with a system more like FFXI, however what it seems they are doing here is a mish mash of both but not taking any of the good things from either.

[Commat]

They're completely scrapping Komoto's idea to appease the masses

What masses are they appeasing exactly?

I haven't heard anyone ask for dropping Jobs on top of these shit classes. I don't know anyone that isn't playing that are going to sub up because of this new system.

No players or could be players are getting what they want here. The new system is actually going against appeasing the masses by catering to the 30k or less of us that have stayed when they should be taking away our characters and starting over from scratch.

[Cairdeas]

It wasn't that Komotos Idea was flawed though. It is in theory and design an AWESOME system. I love the Armory System. The Flawed mechanic is actually how they Advertised it.

They advertised Weapons being Classes. They shouldn't have. They should have stuck to a system that said. "There are no Classes"

Right now All the Class and Class Name are are names, they are not even necessary. But people see them, absorb them, then think Classes have to be special and unique from each other. Had they not called them Classes or given them class names they would have never had this confusion or the people demanding "Class Uniqueness"

I would have done the system like this.

• There Are No Starting Classes.
• You learn skills by becoming proficient with Weapons.
• ALL SKILLS can be Cross Equipped with no restrictions, its a skill you learned using it on its no-taught weapon has a small inconvenience but you can use any skill on any weapon.
• When a Weapon uses a non-native skill it adopts it and acts differently, Skills also Merge Together in some Instances. Fire Turns into En-Fire when used on an Axe and grants Fire Damage to the next 5 attacks. Etc. No Duplication of Certain Skills. To get "Red Lotus Blade" you need to Learn Fire, Use it, then use Heavy Strike. Heavy Strike now becomes Red Lotus Blade and does more damage.
• When you equip Skills you know you earn Stats based on the skills. The More Skills you equip in certain patterns the higher your stats go until you run out of Skill Slots.
• Mixing and Matching Skills from various classes you can Create "Job Traits"
• Job Traits are traits that Exemplify the Paragons of a Job.
• When you have a Job Trait Active it gives you so many "Points" towards that Job. Once you breach the Threshold required that Job becomes your Active Title Job. Example: Equiping Cure + Defender = Holy Aura (White Mage 1, Paladin 2) (Defense against Undead Monsters) Cure II + Protect = Defensive Will (Paladin 2, Red Mage 1, White Mage 1) (Physical Damage Defense) Equipping the skills that grant you Holy Aura and Defensive Will Makes your Paladin Job Trait Count now 4, its higher then White Mage (2) and Red Mage (1) Your Job title is Now Paladin.
• When you Have a Job Title Assigned your "Oh Shit Button" skill unlocks. Paladin Gets Invincible. They also get a Boost to the current stats based on a percentage versus how many skills you have equipped. Approximately +2 for Vital Stats for the Job and +1 for non-vital per skill equipped.
• Job Title Is completely dependent on your skills. It has no bearing on what equipment you can and can't use. Except in special cases like Job Specific Gear. So you could be a Paladin wielding an Axe if you chose, but Axes don't use Cure Spells as well as Staffs and short swords. But Axes are great with defensive and hate control skills. Etc.

[Lyndis]

I don't see where all the complaints about this upcoming system keep coming from. It's like you're all seeing a different system than I am.

They're keeping the armory system meaning yes, class = weapon. If you're upset that a dragon knight can't equip sword then I'm sorry but I've seen final fantasy games with incredibly fun job systems with tighter restrictions.

The change is that the armory system will actually mean something now. There will be a huge difference between all the different weapons and how they perform. This does not mean you won't be able to cross class abilities, only that it'll be somewhat limited. The plans are that it'll be limited enough to make it possible to create good party strategies where everyone plays a role yet not so limited that you can't solo and keep yourself alive by using abilities to cure yourself and do damage. In fact I believe the limitations won't be too harsh at all.

The limitations will mainly come into play if you decide to equip a job. Jobs will be a way to further specialize in a class that will further restrict you yet give you benefits to further your class's role. No there will not be one job per one class, at least not in the long run. It's been stated that they want to have multiple jobs per class thus diversifying the possible roles each class can play in a party setting (unlike other games where if you're using a certain job you were stuck to that job's role). The combination of class and job in this fashion gives you more options despite having only leveled one class (again the limitation being your weapon). They've even mentioned the possibility of allowing you to combine classes you've leveled to create combination jobs like red mage.

So you have the option of combining all the great abilities from every class if you want, but that helps mostly in a solo setting. In a party however it will be best to specialize into a job. This gives the game variance and strategy.

So what am I missing, how is this a bad system?

Edit: I guess it's important to say that we have to wait to see how it turns out.

[danny52844]

It wasn't that Komotos Idea was flawed though. It is in theory and design an AWESOME system. I love the Armory System. The Flawed mechanic is actually how they Advertised it.

They advertised Weapons being Classes. They shouldn't have. They should have stuck to a system that said. "There are no Classes"

Right now All the Class and Class Name are are names, they are not even necessary. But people see them, absorb them, then think Classes have to be special and unique from each other. Had they not called them Classes or given them class names they would have never had this confusion or the people demanding "Class Uniqueness"

I would have done the system like this.

• There Are No Starting Classes.
• You learn skills by becoming proficient with Weapons.
• ALL SKILLS can be Cross Equipped with no restrictions, its a skill you learned using it on its no-taught weapon has a small inconvenience but you can use any skill on any weapon.
• When a Weapon uses a non-native skill it adopts it and acts differently, Skills also Merge Together in some Instances. Fire Turns into En-Fire when used on an Axe and grants Fire Damage to the next 5 attacks. Etc. No Duplication of Certain Skills. To get "Red Lotus Blade" you need to Learn Fire, Use it, then use Heavy Strike. Heavy Strike now becomes Red Lotus Blade and does more damage.
• When you equip Skills you know you earn Stats based on the skills. The More Skills you equip in certain patterns the higher your stats go until you run out of Skill Slots.
• Mixing and Matching Skills from various classes you can Create "Job Traits"
• Job Traits are traits that Exemplify the Paragons of a Job.
• When you have a Job Trait Active it gives you so many "Points" towards that Job. Once you breach the Threshold required that Job becomes your Active Title Job. Example: Equiping Cure + Defender = Holy Aura (White Mage 1, Paladin 2) (Defense against Undead Monsters) Cure II + Protect = Defensive Will (Paladin 2, Red Mage 1, White Mage 1) (Physical Damage Defense) Equipping the skills that grant you Holy Aura and Defensive Will Makes your Paladin Job Trait Count now 4, its higher then White Mage (2) and Red Mage (1) Your Job title is Now Paladin.
• When you Have a Job Title Assigned your "Oh Shit Button" skill unlocks. Paladin Gets Invincible. They also get a Boost to the current stats based on a percentage versus how many skills you have equipped. Approximately +2 for Vital Stats for the Job and +1 for non-vital per skill equipped.
• Job Title Is completely dependent on your skills. It has no bearing on what equipment you can and can't use. Except in special cases like Job Specific Gear. So you could be a Paladin wielding an Axe if you chose, but Axes don't use Cure Spells as well as Staffs and short swords. But Axes are great with defensive and hate control skills. Etc.

thats a stupid idea because in the end all u have is 1 class that knows everything and ur the same as every1 else