Battle Reform: Auto-Attack (06/30/2011)

[Corrderio]

Too bad people would cry rivers of blood at the mere thought of FFXI mechanics in XIV.

Which is sad since that was one of the few things that would actually be a good thing to transfer over to XIV.

[Amas]

lol

You're only archer rank 24, so I'll let this one slide.

As you get to know your class better, you'll realize that playing archer is different than melee classes. Choosing when NOT to shoot is just as important, if not more so, than choosing when to shoot.

Last page and all, but you could pretty much copypasta RNG in for archer there, and apply it to FFXI instead.

Oh wait, RNG in FFXI is STILL underpowered, and has been regardless of buffs since the original RNG nerf. The only thing that made it competitive for a while pre-Abyssea was a KC and a gun. Good thing all those other melee classes had to pony up for a 50m gil weapon just to compete. Oh wait...

The dude you're shooting down is right on the money... they way they are implementing AA puts ARC at a deficit by default. Unless AA for melee classes is so awful that it's not even used (in other words... the other basic attacks would have to have such short cooldowns that they're spammable, and doing so would have to override the auto attack cycle), ARC is going to have the same deficit RNG has in FFXI.

The only way it will be close to balanced is if Haste cuts down the recast on ranged attacks so that ARC can match pace with melee DDs, but even then the melees will be swinging automatically in between triggering abilities, while ARC will still be mashing 11111111111 just to get their basic hits in.

And hey, it might even have been you who had the right answer to Multishot/Trifurcate... don't have them proc on a ranged AA. Load them up, fire off with a Heavy Shot. Easy peasy.

[Rentahamster]

while ARC will still be mashing 11111111111 just to get their basic hits in.

That's not how you play Archer effectively.

[Greencactaur]

Looks interesting.

[Capita]

That's not how you play Archer effectively.

That's not the point. You're basing everything you're saying on how classes are now, which is pointless because 1.18 changes everything.

The point is that with the addition of AA, spamming a basic attack to match a melee's DPS output becomes grossly inconvenient. Also, if AA actually does any sort of significant DPS, ARC is left in the dust because of a lack of it unless they turn our WS into actual nukes.

[Physic]

Last page and all, but you could pretty much copypasta RNG in for archer there, and apply it to FFXI instead.

Oh wait, RNG in FFXI is STILL underpowered, and has been regardless of buffs since the original RNG nerf. The only thing that made it competitive for a while pre-Abyssea was a KC and a gun. Good thing all those other melee classes had to pony up for a 50m gil weapon just to compete. Oh wait...

The dude you're shooting down is right on the money... they way they are implementing AA puts ARC at a deficit by default. Unless AA for melee classes is so awful that it's not even used (in other words... the other basic attacks would have to have such short cooldowns that they're spammable, and doing so would have to override the auto attack cycle), ARC is going to have the same deficit RNG has in FFXI.

The only way it will be close to balanced is if Haste cuts down the recast on ranged attacks so that ARC can match pace with melee DDs, but even then the melees will be swinging automatically in between triggering abilities, while ARC will still be mashing 11111111111 just to get their basic hits in.

And hey, it might even have been you who had the right answer to Multishot/Trifurcate... don't have them proc on a ranged AA. Load them up, fire off with a Heavy Shot. Easy peasy.

heavy shot doesnt exist till you do a quest and hit level 30 and buy it with points. it also has a higher stamina cost.
you also cant move while shooting.
you also dont need to hit 11111 on archer
archer still out dps lancer who has the only haste in this game, and it used to effect ALL Actions.

The other attacks will probably have short cooldowns so that they can be spammed or they will serve no purpose at all.

What is the point of a basic attack that does cone damage/line peircing if its recast is 30 seconds? a WS that is 500 tp cost is more useful

What is the point of a basic attack that gives you a defense and evasion buff for 8 seconds, if its cooldown is 20 seconds

What is the point of a basic attack that does 3 quick attacks for less damage and can follow a heavy or itself if its cooldown is 10 seconds.

The reality is, AA isnt going to be that useful. In fact they themselves said that AA wasnt going to be that useful. Its only purpose was to lower the amount of presses people did, and for some classes it will be more usefull than others. Mostly i think Glad and marauder may benefit, maybe lancer a little, and lnc and marauder wont get that much benefit if they increase amount of possible claims.
arch pugilist and the mages wont get much out of it.

I could be wrong, but based on that video and what they said about other basic attacks, and the overall purpose of AA

AA is a lie, designed to placate the masses.

[Capita]

Now I'm wondering if people even know what Auto Attack is. It's not a WS, so it's not supposed to do more damage than your WS. It's not a spell, so it's not supposed to do more damage than your spells. It's a BASIC ATTACK. No bonus damage, no cost.

We're not talking about spamming our WS, we're talking about spamming our basic ranged attack while everyone else is allowed to just focus on their WS since their basic attacks will become automated.

[Rentahamster]

That's not the point. You're basing everything you're saying on how classes are now, which is pointless because 1.18 changes everything.

The point is that with the addition of AA, spamming a basic attack to match a melee's DPS output becomes grossly inconvenient. Also, if AA actually does any sort of significant DPS, ARC is left in the dust because of a lack of it unless they turn our WS into actual nukes.

Yes, that is the point, because archer DPS will still revolve around careful useage of multishot, trifurcate, light shot, buffs, and your various weapon skills.

It will not revolve around getting into melee range.

[Physic]

That's not the point. You're basing everything you're saying on how classes are now, which is pointless because 1.18 changes everything.

The point is that with the addition of AA, spamming a basic attack to match a melee's DPS output becomes grossly inconvenient. Also, if AA actually does any sort of significant DPS, ARC is left in the dust because of a lack of it unless they turn our WS into actual nukes.

archer didnt need to spam attacks to keep up with mellee spamming attacks before. Archers basic attacks ARE NUKES. multishot+ buffs are the highest damage mellee nukes in the game (moreso than even WS). so much so that an archer out DPS all other melee including haste lancers while only taking basic attack every 20 seconds or so. Archers actually sit around waiting for peoples hate to build up so they can hit something again without dying AND STILL OUT DPS all mellee.

this is while melee are sitting around spamming 11111 non stop. the fact that the computer is going to take over pressing 1 1111 for meleers, doesnt change the fact than an archer can outdmg them all by pressing 1 every 20 seconds.

[Capita]

Yes, that is the point, because archer DPS will still revolve around careful useage of multishot, trifurcate, light shot, buffs, and your various weapon skills.

It will not revolve around getting into melee range.

You're still missing the point.

Every class will ultimately revolve around their WS and their timing. That doesn't change with or without AA. I don't see why you think AA has such an impact on the usage and timing of WS. It doesn't. And it obviously has nothing to do with going into melee range as an ARC.

The entire argument is about our only AA being a melee attack and the lack of a ranged AA, which will be a huge detriment if AA's DPS is important enough for endgame raids and bosses because that means ARC gets shafted. Skillful use and timing of WS is still important even with AA. I don't understand how you could think otherwise.