Thancred <spoilers>

[Magis]

Yeah, seems this is how they'd do it.

[Enkidoh]

Actually, as far as the Armoury System is concerned, you're not using a specific weapon 'type' at all - each weapon or tool is listed as '<class name>'s arm' or '<class name's> 2-handed arm' or '<class name's> tool'. So for instance, a metal staff (a THM weapon) is listed as a 'Thaumaturge 2-handed Arm' and a wooden staff is listed as a 'Conjurer's 2-handed Arm', despite both being staves.

Really, SE could easily add different versions of one weapon type to individual classes, by simply using the same trick of simply naming a specific class's 'arm' - i.e. a hypothetical 'Rogue/Thief' class could easily have their daggers (which are already used as GLA weapons), simply listed as a 'Rogue's Arm' and not as a dagger.

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

Problem is there is already a dagger weapon in game. So are we going to have 1 dagger and 2 dagger types? Maybe it will be rolled into just one type, duel daggers.

So everyone just forgot about off-hand wielding?

[Falen]

Snip Snip

Those are some very good points, but the hard question is concerned more with the game's aesthetics making sense, aka what makes sense in the world of FFXIV, which is why I'm for the repurposing of Daggers to Thief (Rogue somehow just doesn't fit the naming aesthetic to me...)

Snip Snip

The aesthetic difference between those two classes' weapons is that Conjurers, being keepers of the earth, wield that very same earth with their weapons (pretty much they are all made of organic matter). Thaumaturges use metal, or inorganic, materials in their weapons, and are "responsible" for the keeping of the dead. (There's obviously a difference in the idea of inorganic versus dead things, but they are both along the thought of "not-living".) Aesthetically, that means that the channels of power are given from fundamentally different ideas, or ways of thinking.

[Falen]

"Ways of thinking" in this discussion, to me, says:

"Would a fighter use a dagger in the same manner as a short/longsword?"

I do not believe they would, and even watching the Gladiator's auto-attack animation be the same for a short/long/dagger isn't as aesthetically pleasing because they are the same speed, even if the Gladiator is attacking more with one than the other.

[gornotck]

Not to keep derailing this subject, but the differences between 'daggers' and 'swords' is almost one of metaphysical opinion. People actually have arguments about where a 'dagger' ends and where a 'sword' begins, which usually ends up with an arbitrary set of criteria simply to move a conversation along.
I don't think I can think of anywhere that the Armoury System actually explicitly affects NPCs. They are simply assumed to have actually had real life experiences, with real life consequences, and to make real life decisions based on their real life history. So whatever Thancred does or does not do as some sort of explicit class or job, or any NPC for that matter, should not explicitly matter or cause a disturbance in the bland aesthetic we are left with.

[ZReport]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point one what's going on. Thancred is simply being retconned along with his job's continuity (BRD):

1) BRD was supposed to originally be like FFXI's BRD, complete with dagger and instruments. However it was simply going to be a class instead of a job. When Yoshida took the helm and introduced the job system, he tied Bard to the Archer class, thereby creating the need to retcon Thancred's "job."

2) Thancred having GLD abilities in storyline fights means absolutely nothing. This simply means that the development team doesn't have any Thief-like abilities just yet implemented. Abilities can always be changed for NPC units in this game -- It will more than likely happen for Thancred too, once a Thief-like class is introduced, for the sake of keeping everything true to form.

3) Use of daggers in game on GLD/PLD can always be overhauled, once a Thief-like class is added to the game. It's not beyond the development team to completely remove the use of daggers from GLD/PLD (with or without giving them replacement weapons), and then shifting it's use over to THF or what have you. Keep in mind during 1.0, the Sentinel job was completely rolled into Gladiator at some point.

4) Thancred was simply complimenting Yugiri on having a very similar battle style as his. We might learn about it later -- both their arts might derive from the same original source. Yes, he's mentioned that he's a Bard, but that doesn't suddenly stop the fact that he's part of a secret society who all practiced a secret art. His true class might be that of Thief/Rogue/Scoundrel or what have you. You can assume this because Yugiri stays with an associate of Thancred's to train and learn (and or share ideas) of their methods of their fighting art.

You guys have to look beyond what you currently see in game. Anything can be changed to better fit the storyline and metagame.

[Reynhart]

I think the cutscenes after the Leviathan fight are pretty clear about what Thancred "is" and "was"

First, he was a Thief in Limsa Lominsa. When you go see the secret organisation, their outfit is pretty much screaming "THIEEEEF" with the green shirt and green bandana...then, Louisoix took care of him and brought him to Ul'Dah, where Thancred was taught the Gladiator style. The reason why he didn't use the Thief style before is because he doesn't want others to know his...connections. He even says so in the same cutscenes.

As for Yugiri, she's pretty much a Ninja, and if you recall Final Fantasy I, Thief evolved into Ninja. So the "our fighting style is similar" is there to reminds us of that link between the two.

On the Dual Wield subject, I really hope it will be a real Dual Wield, and not a "cosmetic" one like the Monk. I hope we'll see one-handed dagger/kunai/whatever-they-want-to-call-them and we'll be able to equip two of them past a certain level.


AND we'll see two-handed "sabers" for the second job associated with Thief, which I think will be Samurai.
Why ? Because Yugiri comes from Doma. And Doma is the name of the kingdom where Cyan comes in FFVI, who is pretty much you standard samurai lorewise. And Yugiri evens says she'll open a "Dojo" in Limsa.

[ZReport]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point one what's going on. Thancred is simply being retconned along with his job's continuity (BRD):

3) Use of daggers in game on GLD/PLD can always be overhauled, once a Thief-like class is added to the game. It's not beyond the development team to completely remove the use of daggers from GLD/PLD (with or without giving them replacement weapons), and then shifting it's use over to THF or what have you. Keep in mind during 1.0, the Sentinel job was completely rolled into Gladiator at some point.

You guys have to look beyond what you currently see in game. Anything can be changed to better fit the storyline and metagame.

So apparently #3) is going to happen exactly as I stated it would, due to the information Yoshi let slip today. GLD/PLD will have appropriate swords to replace their missing daggers at certain levels. All dagger weapons will be rolled into the new Thief-like job.

[Falen]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point one what's going on. Thancred is simply being retconned along with his job's continuity (BRD):

1) BRD was supposed to originally be like FFXI's BRD, complete with dagger and instruments. However it was simply going to be a class instead of a job. When Yoshida took the helm and introduced the job system, he tied Bard to the Archer class, thereby creating the need to retcon Thancred's "job."

Except that what I said earlier stands even in the 1.0 Ul'Dah intro cutscene; Momodi refers to Thancred as a bard, not Bard. And there was no talk of Jobs before Yoshi-P took over, unless you can prove otherwise? Jobs came in patch 1.21, a whole (almost) year and a half after Yoshi-P took to helm ( http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tch-1.21-Notes ).
Thancred was never intended to be a Bard in 1.0, therefore there was nothing in that sense retconned.
bard =/= Bard