Duty Finder and troublesome players

[lxSch]

I did not mean exposing people to positive things, but rather showing them in the unwarped and proper state. Being mature means making conscious choices, which are impossible without understanding the topic (like voting during the elections).
I did instances with plds using only riot blade or uncomboed roh and never said a word to them, because i understand they are new and telling them something is pointless. If i tried to make a fun of them - maybe it would have worked, or maybe they would say something very rude in return and quit - neither of outcomes are useful for me, so i would stay quiet.
In my country i have spoken with people who went through WW2 and more modern wars, who were jailed, lived in a very harsh environment - none of them were rude, but instead very polite and considerate, because their behavior was developed themselves through the life experience.
So why people act rude if it does not benefit them? I doubt this is something they developed themselves, but rather was forced on them through some popular source (like media).

[i2agnarok]

I did instances with plds using only riot blade or uncomboed roh and never said a word to them, because i understand they are new and telling them something is pointless. If i tried to make a fun of them - maybe it would have worked, or maybe they would say something very rude in return and quit - neither of outcomes are useful for me, so i would stay quiet.

I doubt this is something they developed themselves, but rather was forced on them through some popular source (like media).

What, so you let them run around oblivious because you might get an unfavorable response? Do you let them make things harder on the group in general, either because they simply don't understand what their role is meant to do just because it can possibly inconvenience you? You'd rather just deal with the resulting wipes or let people not pull their weight? What purpose does that serve? If I tell a PLD, politely, mind you, that he's doing it wrong, he's either going to react unfavorably (ignoring, yelling, arguing), or he will react positively (thanking, asking for an explanation and overall leading to improvement). If a person is obviously struggling something or isn't doing something the right way, I'd at least attempt to make an effort to help. How they take it is up to them. I may make someone's day. If you're just going to turn a blind eye because the outcome may inconvenience you slightly when the reward is so much greater, I find that selfish and simply afraid of conflict.

You say that you think people act like this because they're force-fed behavioral patterns from popular media and I can easily say that these same people are shaped by experiences where they are helpless and could have been avoided by one small act of kindness. Acts of bullying and discrimination, retaliation, suicide, all obviously on a much larger scale than an experience in a video game, but more often than not, there's always a common factor, and that's because people go down a path they may not have gone down and say that no one was there to help them. People that turn a blind eye because the majority of the outcomes aren't useful to them.

Bitterness causes feelings and a motivation to be rude to people. Your Halone-spamming PLD could have had his entire experience with the game changed, and the only risk is that you'd have to re-queue if he gets mad and quits. People that don't do anything about it, that allow these things to happen, can cause these people to act like they do, in game and out. That is going to have more of an effect than any cartoon.

[Spoekes]

Your Halone-spamming PLD could have had his entire experience with the game changed, and the only risk is that you'd have to re-queue if he gets mad and quits.

This a thousand times.

Never had somebody quit for giving them polite advice.
You can still decide to not go further into discussion with them if they get defensive and rude.

EDIT:
Sadly i cannot write an answer cause SE thought 10 a day would be sufficient......

Did they read skills description? - No. Did they pay attention to the group? - No. But this was the cause. Would i solve the cause by explaining what to do in a particular certain situation? No, i will only make it worse because their problem will become much harder to notice.

Why becomes their problem harder to notice?
I'd rather guess it will lead to improvements.

Maybe you should learn not to project one's character onto others ?

[magdahmhara]

I came from WoW, I'm shocked when anyone types anything in chat, lol.

[lxSch]

What, so you let them run around oblivious because you might get an unfavorable response? Do you let them make things harder on the group in general, either because they simply don't understand what their role is meant to do just because it can possibly inconvenience you? You'd rather just deal with the resulting wipes or let people not pull their weight? What purpose does that serve? If I tell a PLD, politely, mind you, that he's doing it wrong, he's either going to react unfavorably (ignoring, yelling, arguing), or he will react positively (thanking, asking for an explanation and overall leading to improvement). If a person is obviously struggling something or isn't doing something the right way, I'd at least attempt to make an effort to help. How they take it is up to them. I may make someone's day. If you're just going to turn a blind eye because the outcome may inconvenience you slightly when the reward is so much greater, I find that selfish and simply afraid of conflict.

You say that you think people act like this because they're force-fed behavioral patterns from popular media and I can easily say that these same people are shaped by experiences where they are helpless and could have been avoided by one small act of kindness. Acts of bullying and discrimination, retaliation, suicide, all obviously on a much larger scale than an experience in a video game, but more often than not, there's always a common factor, and that's because people go down a path they may not have gone down and say that no one was there to help them. People that turn a blind eye because the majority of the outcomes aren't useful to them.

Bitterness causes feelings and a motivation to be rude to people. Your Halone-spamming PLD could have had his entire experience with the game changed, and the only risk is that you'd have to re-queue if he gets mad and quits. People that don't do anything about it, that allow these things to happen, can cause these people to act like they do, in game and out. That is going to have more of an effect than any cartoon.

I do not ask people to help solve my issues - instead i do everything i can to solve them myself. I said above pld using only flash or uncomboed roh is not an issue for me, thus there is no need to say anything to them. Also i have not met anyone spamming flash or halone in the endgame - give people time, they will learn everything themselves and will be grateful for giving them a chance.
I see another big reason to become rude and violent. Expecting others to help you is the biggest mistake one can make, and of course it leads to anxciety and bullying. In my country everyone have learned to depend on self and accepting someone's help is considered a weakness and wrong thing to do. Help is still given though in a case it is emergent, but not more. Going down a path because others refused to solve your problems is a very unwise thing to do here.
One could expect help while living in a secure environment, but it does not exist - what do people expect? Making people think they have to expect help from others is really troublesome.

This a thousand times.

Never had somebody quit for giving them polite advice.
You can still decide to not go further into discussion with them if they get defensive and rude.

Once i liked a reply on the topic i did not understand well, and very soon i found out my error and was very ashamed of supporting it (even though it was anonymous). Was a good lesson for me.

[ispano]

-snip-

The problem is you're in a group. If one of the players is hindering the group, you ARE solving your own problem by trying to help them. Also the group > you, so if one player is hindering the group, you should be obligated to try and correct it.

[lxSch]

Now i see why drama starts in DF so much. I highly dislike to solve my problems through other people (either by asking or telling them to do something). If someone is really hindering the group (using flash only or uncomboed roh is not) - i will give them time to see there is a problem and try to improve, if they do not - i will leave. It's not the matted of not knowing a certain thing, but having a wrong approach in the first place.
Did they read skills description? - No. Did they pay attention to the group? - No. But this was the cause. Would i solve the cause by explaining what to do in a particular certain situation? No, i will only make it worse because their problem will become much harder to notice.

[ispano]

Now i see why drama starts in DF so much. I highly dislike to solve my problems through other people (either by asking or telling them to do something). If someone is really hindering the group (using flash only or uncomboed roh is not) - i will give them time to see there is a problem and try to improve, if they do not - i will leave. It's not the matted of not knowing a certain thing, but having a wrong approach in the first place.
Did they read skills description? - No. Did they pay attention to the group? - No. But this was the cause. Would i solve the cause by explaining what to do in a particular certain situation? No, i will only make it worse because their problem will become much harder to notice.

See, that's the problem in your thinking. You only think about yourself. That's actually a problem other people have as well. When in a group, the group is always more important than you. Always. I also prefer to learn myself, but in some situations, you may not notice things. Some people also aren't as good at noticing patterns and such. While I think they should force themselves to get better at it, that just causes drama in itself.

Basically you're causing problems in groups yourself because you're selfish.

[lxSch]

Everyone are equally self-important, so saying someone is less important because he is the minority is rude and wrong. Sometimes sacrifices has to be made (but not forced), but otherwise everyone should either find a consensus or disband. Forcing interests of the majority on everyone is wrong in it's core: everyone's interests must be accounted equally if they wish to stay united.

[ispano]

Everyone are equally self-important, so saying someone is less important because he is the minority is rude and wrong. Sometimes sacrifices has to be made (but not forced), but otherwise everyone should either find a consensus or disband. Forcing interests of the majority on everyone is wrong in it's core: everyone's interests must be accounted equally if they wish to stay united.

And I never said anything of the sort. I'm saying that by keeping your mentality, you're putting yourself in that group of people who are harmful to groups.