No changes to ATMA?

[Zephyranthes]

They didn't acknowledge issues with the current system. The change they mentioned is for the Novus part of the quest thus it was delayed.

[Duelle]

The current system, while not pretty and certainly having its faults, is the most logical progression path for SE to take.

I've said this before, and I'll continue saying it in hopes it sinks in.

Atma as a concept is not bad, but it is placed in the wrong place in the ladder of progression and given to the wrong demographic. The guilds running Coil ad nauseum (AKA the self-proclaimed non-casuals) should be the ones dealing with low-drop-rate RNG systems like Atma (or their predecessors, Splinters of Atiesh/Fragments of Val'anyr) because the system would then encourage them to organize themselves while giving them repeatable content that would be a long term project.

In short, "non-casuals" play enough to justify an RNG-centered system because of the pace in which they consume contentm and the same cannot be said for those who don't fit into that non-casual bracket. As for me, I'm staying away until I see significant changes to Atma or a weapon that is reasonably obtainable that acts as an alternative to relics enters the game. Just a shame that we had things reasonably paced before this system was introduced and the devs decided to go entirely in the other direction.

[Syrellaris]

@DoubleT

I am not saying a Grind perse is a bad thing, it is the way it is done with RNG that is the issue at this point. If we had a clear goal in say do 750 fates I would have no issues with it. There would be grinding, there would be time investment and for some it will be fun, for others it won't. A fair compromise if you ask me. However when RNG as it is now is in the cornor it just isn't all that fair. As others already explained in more detail, one could farm for weeks hours on end and get maybe 1 atma, while another could farm 1 day and get all 12. That to me and many others isn't fun as there is no clear goal.

@Asael,

I personally have no issues with those solutions as to me that is fun. Which is why I play games on the hardest difficulty, retry difficult encounters in games till I can do them etc. But I will agree with you on that there will always be people complaining about things, and thus so people will also complain about those solutions you posted.


@Welsper59

I get what you are trying to say however I feel that just because RNG is a Traditional System and used in many games, it does not automatically mean it is a good system. I also don't fully agree with you on this part. "It's not fun for you? Good, that's essentially the point."

[Zaels]

You do realize there's a difference between refusing to do something and not being able to get past it, right?

You don't need an i100 weapon to get past it either.

[Lafiele]

I've been patient enough, thanks. I've spent 20 hours in hell known as "Southern Thanalan" with no Atma to show for it. Yet I have friends who have gotten all 12 Atmas in that same amount of time. This system is an absolute joke.

20 hours is nothing. I don't get why you guys are complaining and comparing yourself to other players. It's like rolling low on loot and someone manage to get lucky and get 4 pieces in a week yet you got none. Are you going to cry about that too? What am I saying, of course you are because this system is a joke to you.

[Welsper59]

@Welsper59

I get what you are trying to say however I feel that just because RNG is a Traditional System and used in many games, it does not automatically mean it is a good system. I also don't fully agree with you on this part. "It's not fun for you? Good, that's essentially the point."

Sorry, bit of a wall-o-text here but: The system itself doesn't have to be "good". What's good and bad is subjective to the audience that it's intended for. That's why we have diversity in genres. Not everything about one genre will attract any given person. But genres have things that it sticks to in order for it to be... part of that genre. MMORPGs, or RPGs in general, will always incorporate RNG. It's just part of the way it works. Some people may try to get away from it entirely... but it won't last very long.

When we know when to expect something and exactly how we get it, things become stale. We might stick around for a little while, but we'll just grow bored faster. It's a bit of a gamble these days, but that's just how it is. Take pro sports for example. What if the outcomes were revealed beforehand. We knew who was going to win and how. Would we still be interested? For the most part no. We might watch highlight moments... but definitely not gonna stick around long. There's no excitement in the moment that a team wins/loses. Likewise, there's no impressionable excitement in the moment you get the item you're wanting when you know it's going to happen.

That ties in with the "not fun" remark I made. We go through burdens to reap rewards. Because of those burdens, we have a greater attachment to the reward itself. If we were guaranteed something, regardless of means (simply mailed to you, complete 50 FATEs, or required killing twintania 20 times), the reward itself doesn't have as much meaning on the individual level. Think of myth farming... fun, right? /sarcasm

If you have to spend time on a guaranteed reward, it'll just be boring. You know when to expect it, so the in-between offers nothing more than tedium because... you can't lose and nothing is ever different/unexpected. There's no potential for disappointment when you're guaranteed formulaic progress. A negative feeling, like disappointment, is not always a bad thing (within reason).

MMORPGs are about the feeling, not just the digital reward (and short-term excitement). It's a very huge reason why MMOs gained mainstream popularity. The players developed an attachment for the game they played (and often, it was just one MEMORABLE game). Not only did they love playing with friends/others, but they also grew an attachment to their character and progression. Maybe I'm too old minded and the idea of attachment is outdated and worthless to the new generation, that it's all about the pig happiness (immediate/expected reward), but attachment is one of the reasons that this game even exists. And in many ways, RNG is responsible for that. I'm not saying RNG was the perfect choice for Atma, but what I am saying is that RNG (as a system) is not flawed.

[Ddmk]

I've spent over 100 hours and still only have 4 atmas they need a slight boost to drop rate or a alternative method to obtain them...
Don't get me wrong I like to grind,but repeating low level content on a rng drop sucks

[skaterger]

snip

Beautifully and eloquently written, wished I could like the post more than once. Nice to see there are still some old school rpgers around amidst the crowd of "I must get rewarded something for every second of time I put into the game!" players. I've tried to explain something similar to what you wrote and have been called a troll, masochist, basement dweller and douche among others.

I much preferred the atma portion of the quest than the books. I'm only into book 3 and I'm already quickly losing interest. Each book will take me around 5-7 days to get because of the limited time I have to play as well as time I need to raid with my static. There is no chance for me to get "lucky" like in the atma portion where I farmed for 8 hours for 1 before getting the next in 15 minutes. The books are a chore, and the fates where you have to stand around for hours doing nothing makes it worse. Sadly, I can't see any end in sight. I would go so far as to say that rng is a very good solution to a grind as it breaks the monotony.

Some of the most fun times I had while playing rpgs are directly predicated on rng. In some older games, there are some mobs that have a very small percentage of 1 shotting you even if you wore the best armor in game. It happened rarely but we all had a good laugh about it when it happened. In another mmo, there was this upgrade system where you could affix upgrades to your weapon not unlike the materia system in ffxiv. The catch is as you upgrade your weapon progressively, the chance of success goes down until it hits 10% or so. Should it fail, the weapon breaks and you lose everything you invested. Should it succeed though, you might be the only player on your server to have that weapon and it might be worth 600 million gil or so (in ffxiv terms). So its really a personal choice as to how much a risk taker you are. This sure beats everyone walking around in full allagan/myth gear and looking the same and having the same stats, aside from glamour. Needless to say, these kind of rng will never be implemented into games today because of how expectations of gamers have evolved today.

[Worm]

Fates used to require 1 button (a macro I made for them that did Stoneskin->Riot Blade x2->repeat->echo ding. A WHM alternatively can aggro the boss->Un-level-sync->Regen themselves for AFK gold), but recently I realized that if I summon my Chocobo on heal I can just AFK auto-attack and most FATE bosses will eventually die on their own.

Gotta say I have no idea why people brag about doing a very simple farm wrong. Think about it, the only thing that makes FATEs appear quicker is quickly doing FATEs. So if you're not Zerging fates in a group and utilizing best practices you're essentially doing the Atma grind wrong.

[Doo]

lol this guy.
http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/..._atmacolor.png