So..Lets talk jobs?

[Kam]

I do not have an answer for you, nor do I know SE's intent on anything ever, but I liked playing RDM as a support class in XI.

A well geared rdm could play any generic role in XI, like it was meant to do - and excelled at a few of them. Though I understand as to why many people think of it as simply playing that role you described for it.

XI was gear and macro intensive, a thing people seem to want to get rid of. So yea, the question seems to be; How do we make a jack of all traits* with no gear swapping while balancing it to the other classes and jobs? (*Which is the current battle system if you think about it lol)

The short answer is you can't - it loses position to specialised roles.

[Duelle]

XI was gear and macro intensive, a thing people seem to want to get rid of. So yea, the question seems to be; How do we make a jack of all traits* with no gear swapping while balancing it to the other classes and jobs? (*Which is the current battle system if you think about it lol)

The short answer is you can't - it loses position to specialised roles.

Not necessarily. Gear was one of RDM's balancing factors in XI; as in, gear currently equipped. That balancing factor was negated due to allowing all that gear swapping.

Had they gone with Caird's idea of layering jobs on top of the classes rather than treating the jobs as specialization paths for each class, I'd say Scherwiz and I would both get what we want. I could set my class to FNC (once that's introduced) and my job to RDM and be a magic fencer. He'd get to set himself as CON or THM and play RDM as support.

Since that's not going to be the case, one of two things should happen. Either you allow RDM to become flexible based on abilities and traits set, with gear sealing the deal (as in, you equip melee traits, melee gear, and melee attacks and you get to stand in the front, equip healer/support traits and abilities and you stand in the back, and so on), or you focus more on the melee mage aspect of Red Mage right out of the box (the way it was done with BLU in FFXI) to keep the same mistake that happened in XI from repeating itself. All of this is provided the class combo that unlocks Red Mage is a mix of GLA/FNC and CON/THM. Personally, I'd be pleased if it was FNC and CON.

[SydeBeheln]

Not necessarily. Gear was one of RDM's balancing factors in XI; as in, gear currently equipped. That balancing factor was negated due to allowing all that gear swapping.

Had they gone with Caird's idea of layering jobs on top of the classes rather than treating the jobs as specialization paths for each class, I'd say Scherwiz and I would both get what we want. I could set my class to FNC (once that's introduced) and my job to RDM and be a magic fencer. He'd get to set himself as CON or THM and play RDM as support.

Since that's not going to be the case, one of two things should happen. Either you allow RDM to become flexible based on abilities and traits set, with gear sealing the deal (as in, you equip melee traits, melee gear, and melee attacks and you get to stand in the front, equip healer/support traits and abilities and you stand in the back, and so on), or you focus more on the melee mage aspect of Red Mage right out of the box (the way it was done with BLU in FFXI) to keep the same mistake that happened in XI from repeating itself. All of this is provided the class combo that unlocks Red Mage is a mix of GLA/FNC and CON/THM. Personally, I'd be pleased if it was FNC and CON.

Don't forget what RDM's signature skills are. The option to use not only white magic, but black magic too, and equip heavier armor with offensive weapons+ shields. Because of this, RDM doesn't master in any one specific skill, but instead has the viability of using all said skills.

Applying that to the FFXIV system, means we need to look at RDM differently than we do in FFXI. People need to pre-determine their role in a party, if they know they are going to be main healers, than set your actions to do so. Same goes if you end up nuking(magic DD). Or luckily for RDM they can even choose to be a front-line job, and utilize a bit of everything offensively, with a tid-bit of support options. Gear switching as the devs have already said, is something signature to FFXI, and is not something they want FFXIV to utilize. Look at RDM along the lines of "what role am i playing today, set my actions for that role, equip the gear for that role, and stick with it till my role has changed/ party ends".

[Duelle]

Don't forget what RDM's signature skills are. The option to use not only white magic, but black magic too, and equip heavier armor with offensive weapons+ shields. Because of this, RDM doesn't master in any one specific skill, but instead has the viability of using all said skills.

The problem is that doesn't mesh well when they're using the jobs as specializations for the current weapon classes. Hence why I'm more likely to lean towards melee mage being emphasized this time around rather than risk the generalist design and end up shackled to the back row again in the content that matters. Plenty of FF ideas have been adapted to the MMO context. It's about time RDM gets the same treatment, really.

As I see it, RDM is the kind of character that in a fighting game would combo you and then throw you to the other edge of the screen not through a fancy throw or a knockback attack, but instead by releasing magic on you at point-blank range.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

The problem is that doesn't mesh well when they're using the jobs as specializations for the current weapon classes. Hence why I'm more likely to lean towards melee mage being emphasized this time around rather than risk the generalist design and end up shackled to the back row again in the content that matters. Plenty of FF ideas have been adapted to the MMO context. It's about time RDM gets the same treatment, really.

As I see it, RDM is the kind of character that in a fighting game would combo you and then throw you to the other edge of the screen not through a fancy throw or a knockback attack, but instead by releasing magic on you at point-blank range.

You mean, give RDM a better sword skill level so they can actually hit and do damage, but then... oh, instead of En-Spells just being +10 fire damage, make it so you can En- any spell to go off on your next hit. So, like, charge your sword with Fire III and on the next attack it goes stab plus boom.

[Duelle]

You mean, give RDM a better sword skill level so they can actually hit and do damage, but then... oh, instead of En-Spells just being +10 fire damage, make it so you can En- any spell to go off on your next hit. So, like, charge your sword with Fire III and on the next attack it goes stab plus boom.

I guess that works, too. I was thinking more along the lines of what Seifer did during the intro to FFVIII; releasing a fire spell right in Squall's face.

Personally, I'd design the job around mixing magic and melee. Enspells, spells cast through the equipped sword, procs that could be spent to insta-cast a nuke or a heal depending on what's needed at the moment. That sort of thing. But yes, better damage would be part of the deal.

[SydeBeheln]

I guess that works, too. I was thinking more along the lines of what Seifer did during the intro to FFVIII; releasing a fire spell right in Squall's face.

Personally, I'd design the job around mixing magic and melee. Enspells, spells cast through the equipped sword, procs that could be spent to insta-cast a nuke or a heal depending on what's needed at the moment. That sort of thing. But yes, better damage would be part of the deal.

I see where your coming from. I think BLU was done very well in terms of fighter mage. RDM in ffxi was more likely pushed to being a healer because of it's significant refresh abilities and it's a bit more lasting than whm in terms of MP. However, I can't really see the community not using RDM as a main healer if the situation calls for it, or nuker for that matter either. I would love RDM to finnaly be seen as a front-line fighter mage, with support healing and support nuke.