Dark Knight

[Kitru]

If you actually WATCH the video the creator was comparing fake Video Game Ninjas to REAL ones. Better luck next time on this one.

I did, and he's still not using real historical ninjas. He's using the modern concept of the ninja that was exaggerated to create the video game ninjas that he's bashing. His concept of a ninja is only marginally more accurate than the ones the video game uses (dangling upside down and crawling around on rooftops is not something that a ninja would do all the time, much less break someone's neck).

His "real" ninjas are all running around in the "trademark" ninja garb in which there is not a lick of evidence that ninja actually wore. He also acts as if ninja were absolutely and totally obsessed with keeping their identities hidden by concealing their faces (seriously, he's massively hung up on this). A vast majority of the time a ninja would be running around looking like a peasant, blending into crowds because it's a helluva lot easier to get away when you look inconspicuous than when you're dressed "like a ninja" (even at night; hiding behind something or looking like an innocent bystander is *infinitely* more effective than trying to hide in shadows), not to mention that a vast majority of ninja work was just like modern day spycraft: gathering information, sabotage, and only *rarely* killing someone (even then, more likely to be accomplished with poison or some other indirect method). Blending into the background is also why the traditional ninja weapons were old farm tools or very small, easily hidden weapons (real shuriken are tiny and the "throwing star" never really used; shuriken were more like large throwing needles or kunai): the ninja would look like a peasant working in the field, harvesting crops rather than an obvious threat.

The "ninja outfit" that he goes on and one about is a construct of popular culture, not history. It was derived from kabuki theater where the stagehands who ran around behind the actors were dressed in black so that they blended in with the black backdrop. Since someone walking up behind an actor kind of signal an impending assassination/attack which ruins the surprise, the "assassin" would be dressed as a stagehand so that everyone ignored him and "kill" the actor with no one suspecting. Since assassinations are pretty popular in historical plays and a technique like that only works until everyone expects it, people started equating an actor dressed in the stagehand's outfit as the stereotypical "ninja", much like people think that spies are like James Bond. The different colored suits were simply reverse extrapolation of the black suit as people tried to account for straight black being bad camouflage (unless you're, you know, in a kabuki theater using a black backdrop).

That video has less to do with historical ninjas (as in "actually happened way back when") than it does with the modern day concept of a ninja extrapolated in reverse by people who love ninjas more than history. It's just like the modern view of the samurai, cowboy, or almost any other popular historical archetype (interesting note: the code of Bushido was actually invented by Japanese Imperialists as propaganda as a way to mythologize their heritage rather than realize that samurai were simply a caste of people with swords that were often little more than celebrated policemen). People are less interested in the bland reality than they are in exaggeration and "rule of cool". The guy obviously *likes* ninjas and has more than a bit of a weeaboo streak in him, but that's basically blinded him to any idea that the ninja might not be as cool as he thought they were.

[Bloodclaw]

Bumping this.

[Bloodclaw]

I did, and he's still not using real historical ninjas. He's using the modern concept of the ninja that was exaggerated to create the video game ninjas that he's bashing. His concept of a ninja is only marginally more accurate than the ones the video game uses (dangling upside down and crawling around on rooftops is not something that a ninja would do all the time, much less break someone's neck).

His "real" ninjas are all running around in the "trademark" ninja garb in which there is not a lick of evidence that ninja actually wore. He also acts as if ninja were absolutely and totally obsessed with keeping their identities hidden by concealing their faces (seriously, he's massively hung up on this). A vast majority of the time a ninja would be running around looking like a peasant, blending into crowds because it's a helluva lot easier to get away when you look inconspicuous than when you're dressed "like a ninja" (even at night; hiding behind something or looking like an innocent bystander is *infinitely* more effective than trying to hide in shadows), not to mention that a vast majority of ninja work was just like modern day spycraft: gathering information, sabotage, and only *rarely* killing someone (even then, more likely to be accomplished with poison or some other indirect method). Blending into the background is also why the traditional ninja weapons were old farm tools or very small, easily hidden weapons (real shuriken are tiny and the "throwing star" never really used; shuriken were more like large throwing needles or kunai): the ninja would look like a peasant working in the field, harvesting crops rather than an obvious threat.

The "ninja outfit" that he goes on and one about is a construct of popular culture, not history. It was derived from kabuki theater where the stagehands who ran around behind the actors were dressed in black so that they blended in with the black backdrop. Since someone walking up behind an actor kind of signal an impending assassination/attack which ruins the surprise, the "assassin" would be dressed as a stagehand so that everyone ignored him and "kill" the actor with no one suspecting. Since assassinations are pretty popular in historical plays and a technique like that only works until everyone expects it, people started equating an actor dressed in the stagehand's outfit as the stereotypical "ninja", much like people think that spies are like James Bond. The different colored suits were simply reverse extrapolation of the black suit as people tried to account for straight black being bad camouflage (unless you're, you know, in a kabuki theater using a black backdrop).

That video has less to do with historical ninjas (as in "actually happened way back when") than it does with the modern day concept of a ninja extrapolated in reverse by people who love ninjas more than history. It's just like the modern view of the samurai, cowboy, or almost any other popular historical archetype (interesting note: the code of Bushido was actually invented by Japanese Imperialists as propaganda as a way to mythologize their heritage rather than realize that samurai were simply a caste of people with swords that were often little more than celebrated policemen). People are less interested in the bland reality than they are in exaggeration and "rule of cool". The guy obviously *likes* ninjas and has more than a bit of a weeaboo streak in him, but that's basically blinded him to any idea that the ninja might not be as cool as he thought they were.

Never mind he actually went to Japan and talked to the decedents of real ninjas. If you knew a little more about real ninjas you knew that they worked primarily in villages not their own, and had to blend into their environment and most importantly their community and stay that way as spies. If they were to do in-depth recon/sabatoge activity they would need to conceal their identity else their, sometimes life long, efforts would be lost and they would probably die.

[Kitru]

Never mind he actually went to Japan and talked to the decedents of real ninjas.

Because it's not like the Japanese hypermythologize ninjas and samurai, which was my entire point.

After the Meiji Revolution, there was a monumental amount of internal propaganda that mythologized medieval Japan. It happened over a century ago so having talked to your grandpa/grandma about ninjas, samurai, or whatever means next to nothing because they were the ones raised by the people exposed to said propaganda and most heavily influenced by it. It's why people think that every Japanese archetype was bound by and followed a code of extreme honor and self sacrifice there really *was* no code and, at best, was something like a general guideline. The government wanted to create links to their nation's heritage while they were changing *everything* by rapidly modernizing from the enforced medievalism of the Edo era while simultaneously setting exceptionally high standards of behavior for people to strive towards.

The mythologizing of the ninja and samurai are effectively the same thing as the mythologizing of the European medieval knight. No knight seriously followed the code of Chivalry nor did anyone think that the Arthurian tales were anything approaching reality. They're idealized constructs based upon what we *wanted* those archetypes to be, not what they actually were.

[Bloodclaw]

Because it's not like the Japanese hypermythologize ninjas and samurai, which was my entire point.

After the Meiji Revolution, there was a monumental amount of internal propaganda that mythologized medieval Japan. It happened over a century ago so having talked to your grandpa/grandma about ninjas, samurai, or whatever means next to nothing because they were the ones raised by the people exposed to said propaganda and most heavily influenced by it. It's why people think that every Japanese archetype was bound by and followed a code of extreme honor and self sacrifice there really *was* no code and, at best, was something like a general guideline. The government wanted to create links to their nation's heritage while they were changing *everything* by rapidly modernizing from the enforced medievalism of the Edo era while simultaneously setting exceptionally high standards of behavior for people to strive towards.

The mythologizing of the ninja and samurai are effectively the same thing as the mythologizing of the European medieval knight. No knight seriously followed the code of Chivalry nor did anyone think that the Arthurian tales were anything approaching reality. They're idealized constructs based upon what we *wanted* those archetypes to be, not what they actually were.

You mean... like the way they might be portrayed in a video-game?

[Kitru]

You mean... like the way they might be portrayed in a video-game?

So now you're using the the exaggerated versions of the mythologized ninjas used in video games to justify this guys mythologized views about historical ninjas in reality? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

The mythologization of the ninja happened *way* before the advent of video games. Video games (though moreso the kung-fu movies of the 70-80s who loved using ninjas as massed faceless opponents which lead to the use of ninjas as they were seen in video games) simply exaggerated certain aspects of that mythologization. The guy was comparing video game ninjas to mythologized ninjas and acting as if he were comparing them to *real* ninjas.

If you want to admit that he was simply comparing two fictional constructs of the ninja (the one invented ~100 years ago and the one invented ~20 years ago), that's fine, but don't act like he was anything approaching a legitimate authority on what the historical ninjas was.

[Bloodclaw]

So now you're using the the exaggerated versions of the mythologized ninjas used in video games to justify this guys mythologized views about historical ninjas in reality? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

No you are putting words in my mouth to try and make me sound wrong to those who have not watched the video. I am saying that an exaggerated cultural view from the decendents of whom practiced the craft/skill/life would make a good source for a video game. I think we are done talking about this here. Take the ninja talk else where please.