Loot Restrictions On i90 and Above Gear/Weapons

[skaterger]

It'd just be nice if people used common sense (someone who can use it now and help runs better) over their own greedy desires (glamour/just because) :/ Reminds me of those people back in Brayflox who'd come in as a 50 mage hitting need on battlemage's just for glamour (that was months away then) over the people who are actually lvling a mage that lvl who ACTUALLY need the gear

If I'm level 50 and I'm running brayflox for no other reason than solely the battlemage set, then I am supposed to pass on it if it drops if there is another caster in the party, totally voiding my 30 minutes spent running the instance? In this case, we both ran the instance for one reason and one only, me for the vanity, the other caster for exp and loot. Why is the 30 minutes i spend somehow less valuable than the other player? Not to mention that the other caster still gets experience even if he does not win the loot, and gear at that level is easily replaceable every 3-4 levels. Please think before you type, this kinda self righteous post just irks me to no end.

[Obysuca]

If I'm level 50 and I'm running brayflox for no other reason than solely the battlemage set, then I am supposed to pass on it if it drops if there is another caster in the party, totally voiding my 30 minutes spent running the instance? In this case, we both ran the instance for one reason and one only, me for the vanity, the other caster for exp and loot. Why is the 30 minutes i spend somehow less valuable than the other player? Not to mention that the other caster still gets experience even if he does not win the loot, and gear at that level is easily replaceable every 3-4 levels. Please think before you type, this kinda self righteous post just irks me to no end.

Because in the real world, we call that being a douche. Same thing applies online, don't think you can pull dick moves like that for your own selfishness over people who actually need the gear to level in just because no one knows who you are.



Hit the post limit, so doing it here

What are you using to justify that levelling is more important than glamour?

A) Using gear to level increases stats, thus increasing the efficiency of running a dungeon/fight
B) Using gear for glamour does absolutely nothing for your stats or how a dungeon/fight goes.

[skaterger]

Because in the real world, we call that being a douche. Same thing applies online, don't think you can pull dick moves like that for your own selfishness over people who actually need the gear to level in just because no one knows who you are.

This is as real a world as we can get missy. And in the real world, calling people douches without substantiating your point makes you look like a complete imbecile. You have yet to answer my question. Why is my 30 minutes spent in the dungeon somehow less valuable than the other player?. And before you spout any of that leveling gear crap, I have addressed that issue which you so conveniently chose to ignore. Just for laughs, I'll give you one more point to ponder. What are you using to justify that levelling is more important than glamour? What about those people whose sole focus in the game is to collect all the loot from lower level dungeons. Please don't be so selfish to disregard these group of players whose main focus is glamour and perhaps you need a mirror to look at yourself before calling others greedy and selfish.

[infinitezero]

I didn't read the entire thread, but here are my thoughts on the matter anyways.

There is no way for you to know another persons intentions unless you ask them and they tell you what they are. Even if a person doesn't even have a class unlocked does not mean they never intend to do so, and level it to the point of being able to use any given loot drop. Putting a restriction on what you can greed roll on sort of defeats the purpose of it being called a greed roll in the first place, don't you think? If a system as you propose were put into place, this is where people would actually start to get screwed over.

Let me give you an example: Let's say I'm running Titan Hard Mode as a Paladin, hoping that the Wall of Crags drops. I have other level 50 classes I could be running this with, but I chose to run it as a Paladin because I'm most interested in the shield and want to have the best chance at getting it if it drops. Instead of the shield, he drops a spear. Say my Dragoon class is only a level 47. Well I guess I'm shit out of luck on this one, huh? No choice but to pass because I can't use it yet. How is that fair, and how with any measure of confidence can you say that you have any more right to it than I do just because you've leveled that class to 50?

Now using the same example in the current state of things (the way it will always be)... I greed on the item. I'm not going to piss and moan if I lose the greed roll because it's not the reason I'm there, and if I want a better chance at getting it I will finish getting my Dragoon to 50 and run it again as that class. If I get the spear on the greed roll, great! Now I won't have to come back as a Dragoon. A small consolation prize for time spent trying to get what I really want while in the process of helping 7 other people to have a chance to get things that they want.

Now to address some of the other posts from this thread: Say the shield drops. I'm equipped with an Allagan Round Shield, and there's another Paladin in the group equipped with a Darklight Kite Shield. You can bet your ass I'm rolling need on that shield. Why? Because it is the one and only reason I'm even running that instance in the first place. You can say all you want that common decency would dictate that I should just let the other Paladin have it because it's an upgrade for him, and I don't need it as far as stats are concerned, but that simply doesn't make it so. I would argue that common decency would dictate that you understand that your time is no more valuable than mine (let alone the 6 other people in the group), and you should deal with it and not be a cry baby if I happen to win the roll. Especially since that 50/50 shot you just got is a hell of a lot better than sitting your ass in que waiting for another tank.

Any person that argues against this is just plain selfish and is always going to be looking for a reason to say they have more right to something than you do.

Common decency... common sense... they aren't really all that common, are they?

[Lunavi]

It is simple really, you want a drop you queue as that class or you make a PF group in which you reserve a certain loot. Always expect people to do what benefits them the most. Utilitarism is really not cared about so much unless it is for an FC or static,

[RentisB]

Love the people just blowing it off with "want the gear, play that job". How many of you are main healers or tanks? I would absolutely LOVE if every healer or tank with a dps alt to switch to that job after the week or so after a patch when they get the gear they needed on their main.

You think queues are bad now... I have 7 50s atm, plan to finish the last 2 but this really only affects me on my main dps alt(bard). The rest of the jobs are just sorta there. I queue for everything as SCH(my main) because sure, the queue time is shorter, but mostly because it's better geared and I can clear(and 3-7 other people) the run faster than if I were on bard. I do queue on bard for some things now that it's i90 if I REALLY want something. (Mostly vanity stuff, stupid Shikaree set :/) I don't use the Duty Finder for anything you'd get i90 from though so I guess this thread doesn't even apply to me. Oh well.

Anyway I'm of the mind that if you can't immediately or very soon use it, you should pass. Since 2.2 I've never once needed a piece of darklight healing gear even though I can. I could use the seals but those are so stupid easy to come by. I greed with everyone else. Call me self-righteous or what have you but when I see people need stuff that you KNOW they don't need I have a lesser opinion of them than I would otherwise.

That said I wouldn't really care about a Need > Greed50 > Greed > pass sorta system either way. I just want people to stop saying "come on that job" because doing that is going to royally screw you all over. I had no interest in the new healer 70 set. Guess I shoulda skipped doing everything on sch and went solely as brd... Now imagine EVERY tank and healer doing that. Or every dps going as their undergeared tank or healer because they want those sets too. *shrug* Little courtesy goes a long way.

Lastly though, I do think you should say something if you're after something specific. This game definitely needs more people talking. I greed just about everything but I will almost always pass if someone asks for something specific.

[Farah]

I check what jobs they have for various reasons. Let's say if they're on blm and they're pulling tons of hate and dying. I'd check to see if they have brd lvled so I can ask them to use quelling strikes and if they don't then I'd suggest to level it, since it's useful to have. Another reason is if we lack a certain job, to check if someone's able to change to it so we can fill up the party and do the content, instead of waiting for a while and having people leave the party, because for some reason, everyone is so impatient these days.

The point is, if you are checking their info, it shouldn't be to justify you having gear over them. If you are doing it for pointers to help them be a better blm, that's great. I feel like the people laying claim to gear are impatient. I'm not claiming gear is mine because I have a lvl 50 alt. If someone else wins the drop, I do the dungeon again. Everyone should have EQUAL opportunity in a dungeon.

People also keep skipping over the fact that you can make a party and ESTABLISH A LOOT AGREEMENT WHICH IS REPORTABLE IF BROKEN. If you run on healer but want dps gear, if you ask the party for the gear BEFORE running the dungeon and they all agree to let you have it, it is a LOOT AGREEMENT. If someone rolls greed after that has been established, it is REPORTABLE. Idk how many times I've said that.

Why is my 30 minutes spent in the dungeon somehow less valuable than the other player?

Thank you. I can't stand it when people just keep skipping over that point. I spent a long time looking for a specific item, and if it drops with a less geared person (who lets say only has done this run once) in the party, I am required to let them have it. I actually am a gear collector. That other person can run the dungeon again, just like i did. My time and effort running the dungeon is the EXACT SAME as the other person, so i should have the EXACT SAME chance at loot. Why do people keep trying to justify it with "undergeared alt" should have the drop, then switching to say "only lvl 50s" get drop. Either my lvl 44 blm deserves the drop for gearing up, or your lvl 50 blm you arent playing on deserves the drop because it's lvl 50 and can use it right away. Clear this up people.

With the reasoning they keep saying I could be really selfish and keep laying claim to something by going "Oh my lvl 50 undergeared alt needs that" and according to them it would be justified and i would deserve it more than anyone else in party. How does that not seem wrong?

[alhandra]

what people are failing to realize is that nothing outside of the instance has any relevance or bearing on a persons right to that loot except what happened within that specific instance. whether its your first time in the instance or if you've been farming it for weeks. whether you've leveled a job or not. all of it is irrelevant

all that matters is if you participated in THAT instance. everyone's time is equal

[infinitezero]

Love the people just blowing it off with "want the gear, play that job".

And I love how people graze through forum posts and pick one line out of context to rag on instead of looking at the bigger picture.

[Kikosho]

This thread just puts a light on the fact that we need better loot distribution options that have to be voted upon by the party. We should have the option to disable Need rolling so Greed parties can function without the threat of someone Need rolling on "accident" or just being a douche. Along with that, more in depth loot rolling options as well, such as what the OP is harping on with not being able to roll if you don't have that class/job leveled to the appropriate level. And might as well toss in the option to change your Need roll as well for those moments when you change to a Healer/Tank/DPS to help the party out but doing so means you lose out on Needing the gear you do want. Obviously, these options are better suited for PF/FC runs as it would be a nightmare of trolling should it be applied to DF.