Is a Parser ever comming?

[magdahmhara]

The only problem I have with dps meters is my experience coming from WoW. It's not the raiders who use them it's people in the lower level instances. It's ridiculous to see meter spam in a level 20 instance and people voting to kick because one person is doing 'unacceptable' dps. If the meters could 'only' be used by raid guilds to improve their teams performance that would be great. Unfortunately, they will be used by people that don't really understand 'how' to use them. It happened in WoW, first with gear score then with recount. You get the 'wannabes' using them as a be all end all. It's sad but true, there is nothing that can be done to stop ignorant people from abusing meters.

[Gilraen]

Really ? ... BAD dps should be called out, just as BAD tanks and healers are being thrown into the flame if they are not doing what they are suppose to do.

Thank you for illustrating the point alot of us are making about the potential misuse of parsers. We don't need to be 'calling out' people like they are some kind of disease, you should give tips and suggestions and then move on. If they ask for more advice then oblige, but leave the 'calling out' at home. Do your yelling at the TV or monitor. This is a community, act like it.

[Raenryong]

Thank you for illustrating the point alot of us are making about the potential misuse of parsers. We don't need to be 'calling out' people like they are some kind of disease, you should give tips and suggestions and then move on. If they ask for more advice then oblige, but leave the 'calling out' at home. Do your yelling at the TV or monitor. This is a community, act like it.

If you join a party finder group and woefully unperform, is it not wrong to call them out?

If it is, then I hope you wouldn't call out a tank who comes to your EX Primal party and doesn't keep threat, or perform the tank swaps, potentially with low HP and uses his/her stances wrongly. I hope you wouldn't complain about a healer who only spams their basic cure spell. Bad tanks and healers are called out and replaced; why should bad DPS be exempt?

[Gilraen]

If you join a party finder group and woefully unperform, is it not wrong to call them out?

If it is, then I hope you wouldn't call out a tank who comes to your EX Primal party and doesn't keep threat, or perform the tank swaps, potentially with low HP and uses his/her stances wrongly. I hope you wouldn't complain about a healer who only spams their basic cure spell. Bad tanks and healers are called out and replaced; why should bad DPS be exempt?

Another thing I love in these discussions is the rampant ignorance of Duty Finder. You know, some people still use it and act like it's just a more random Party Finder, right? I've had alot of Duty Finder Wanderers runs where the tank takes off like it's a speed run only to die because noone else was expecting it. In a Party Finder situation you can make all the demands you want because you have the time to do it, but Party Finder isn't the only way to get into an instance.

[Raenryong]

I don't think anyone is arguing that people shouldn't be kicked from duty finder groups unless they are utterly incapable of performing their job. However, what is the problem with the use of group performance analytical tools in party finder groups (which is the norm for serious content where performance is actually important, since dungeons are faceroll)?

[NovaUltimatum]

Bad tanks and healers are called out and replaced; why should bad DPS be exempt?

Do you think replacing those members who you believe are under-performing is the best solution to the reason you can't get past content, or do you try to give useful feedback on how they can improve first?

[Raenryong]

Have you tried giving people useful feedback? It often ends in hostility, no matter how nicely you put it.

Ultimately, it is not my responsibility to ensure people are performing to adequate levels of DPS. I'm happy to help if you want it, but not at the expense of the run I'm currently trying to do. Work on your DPS on your own time, and then join runs requiring serious performance! Guides and training dummies (and parsers) exist for this purpose!

[Gilraen]

I don't think anyone is arguing that people shouldn't be kicked from duty finder groups unless they are utterly incapable of performing their job. However, what is the problem with the use of group performance analytical tools in party finder groups (which is the norm for serious content where performance is actually important, since dungeons are faceroll)?

Sometimes people Party Finder for most of their group then Duty Finder the remainder. I know I do sometimes when there's not enough people to fill the party. Are you going to hold your ringers to the same standards as your Partied people? What about the rest of your Party, will they be civil about them? It's hard to assume for one thing and brush off all other variables and not have it come back to bite you. I have no doubt Square's been doing this same thinking.

[Raenryong]

If you hit the Duty Finder button, you have no right to complain about people you get as they have not signed up to your standards. If you form a full PF group, you have every right to complain. If the person is ultimately completely incapable of performing their role in a duty finder group then I find removing them acceptable (note: "completely incapable" literally meaning that. Not meaning sub-par performance), but aside from that, if you hit that DF button then you sacrifice a great amount of control over your group.

[Demetirus]

I'm not going to follow this thread as I'm sure it's devolved into insults and finger pointing, but I will say that in my experience some folks will use parsers as they should and a large majority will not. I think it sucks for those who want a legit way to gauge themselves (and I said I wouldn't do this, but looking through someone suggested a self-parse only... though I'm already thinking of ways that could be abused too) but most people wouldn't use it to improve themselves. No matter what our experiences are with these things (mine have been terrible in WoW, even when I was generally top or near) the potential for abuse leaves me hoping these things never make it in. If they do, I'll deal, but I'm against it.