Casual player

[MeiUshu]

you need BOTH groups to keep a game alive...frankly it doesnt make it enjoyable for me to come online and entire week at end to try an get my FIRST atma that I didnt have yet...after doing it for nearly five days in a row 3h a day, because that is the little time I have, I stopped at week ends to do something else. it is stressing to rush to a fate and arrive late because zilliosn of players have cleared it in what ? 1mn? it annoys me to sit for 5mn doing nothing to make sure that the fate shows and that I will be there and yet do it for 3-4h and get nothing....nothing none...is that right ? no..I dont complain about the hard thing I complain about the RNG thing...make it hard fine, but hard that is quantifyable...here is not RNG is in to play and as I said when you leave it to luck..some have it others dont..and those that dont..isnt their fault ..isnt something they can control..see wht I mean? So on top of being a casual player which everything takes longer, no problem there, you also fight against something on which you have no control.. there is a middle way something that you can do to make a hard content to get and still make it so t hat everybody can see their progress..without having to deal with luck

Mei

[TenkoRoquette]

I'm as casual as it gets... I've been playing since a week after release and my main is only level 36 on his First (and only) Job. I figure I'll be going after my Relic for the first time around the time when they release the first expansion. lol

It's nice to see a fellow slow progressor. :P I've been playing since beta 4 and my highest level is only 34! (To be fair though, I started all over again on a new server a couple months ago.) At least we'll never run out of stuff to do.

[Asiaine]

you need BOTH groups to keep a game alive

But you don't. There are hundreds of games out there. And this game (like all other businesses) can pick a target demography and cater to them. This game could have been the: jRPG with English Port for Players Who Like Challenges. It could have even been FFXI-2 for those who like it. It could have been the FFXIV for people who hate FFXI. It could have been super hard-core-24-hour-NM-camp-1%-drop, or the 5-minute-100%-boost-to-99 game.

They choose to cater to 'everyone', and in the end may be end up making no one happy.

[ispano]

But you don't. There are hundreds of games out there. And this game (like all other businesses) can pick a target demography and cater to them. This game could have been the: jRPG with English Port for Players Who Like Challenges. It could have even been FFXI-2 for those who like it. It could have been the FFXIV for people who hate FFXI. It could have been super hard-core-24-hour-NM-camp-1%-drop, or the 5-minute-100%-boost-to-99 game.

They choose to cater to 'everyone', and in the end may be end up making no one happy.

And yet, you do. What would happen if they fully catered to the casual base? The game would be FAR different than it is now, not an easier version of what we have. Basically, not the game they wanted to create. But if you cater to the upper end of gamers, that group is small, and while that group would love it, it won't sustain a game.

[Menfist]

In all honesty I see no need to keep up with the majority of players. I roll at my own pace and it keeps me happy. I stopped playing last year and came back as of last week to play more casual now that I have a new born daughter to care for. The only problem with this is I struggle to even find a party for coil turn 1.

You should join or create a casual FC for yourself and others alike, that is what I have done as of today.

[Malamasala]

Well, they could make this casual by adding a game shop where you could buy endgame gear. But most people misinterpret selling endgame gear as P2W, when in reality it is just selling a shortcut for people with more money than time.

[Asiaine]

And yet, you do. What would happen if they fully catered to the casual base? The game would be FAR different than it is now, not an easier version of what we have. Basically, not the game they wanted to create. But if you cater to the upper end of gamers, that group is small, and while that group would love it, it won't sustain a game.

But here I would have to sadly disagree with you. As a business they can choose their target audience:
'Casual' -- then build a game around this target group.
'Upper End' -- then build a game around this target group.

They would then have to manage their budget and costs in line with their target market (as any normal business would do). So for example, they would say:
Casual Market size: 1M people, expected revenue: 120M/year.
Upper End Market size: 200k people, expected revenue: 36M/year

Then they would say: Production Costs:
Production Costs to meet Casual Market & Upkeep: 80M/year
Production Costs to meet Upper End Market & Upkeep: 20M/year (less servers, and less frequent content may be needed to cater to them, and perhaps less flashy graphics).

And so on, until they decide what business model they want. Then they create the game for that model.

What they've done with FFXIV 2.0 is go: Ooh, I would love a game that has this, this and this! Okey... it's made! Yes.. this is how I want the game to be.. okey.. now.. um. Who is the right people to sell this to?

And therein is the 'flaw' if you will.

Now, you don't HAVE to cater to both. You CAN cater to a niche/target demography. You can also try to have mass appeal. This game definitely does not have mass appeal. Which leaves the question: What demography were they targeting?

[ispano]

-snip-

See, the problem with that last bit, is sure you don't have to cater to both, but by not doing so you have to change the game. If they have a vision of how they want the game, those changes may not fly. Also, I'd say it appeals to plenty based on what I see in game.

[CYoung187]

Well, they could make this casual by adding a game shop where you could buy endgame gear. But most people misinterpret selling endgame gear as P2W, when in reality it is just selling a shortcut for people with more money than time.

Stop. How is that not P2W?

[CYoung187]

There is plenty of stuff for both casuals and hardcores. If someone is casual, why are they even trying to grind Atma or hardcore content? If you want to be casual, be casual, don't expect to have/do everything that the hardcores do. That is just unrealistic. I am a fairly casual player, I am not stressing about getting atma., it isn't needed and there are other options. I'll grind on occasion and get my atma later then everyone else and I am fine with that. I can see the discouragement though when a casual player looks at the PF though. "LFM Turn 1, i85 required, must be pro, wipe = kick"