Casual player

[Capita]

But you don't. There are hundreds of games out there. And this game (like all other businesses) can pick a target demography and cater to them. This game could have been the: jRPG with English Port for Players Who Like Challenges. It could have even been FFXI-2 for those who like it. It could have been the FFXIV for people who hate FFXI. It could have been super hard-core-24-hour-NM-camp-1%-drop, or the 5-minute-100%-boost-to-99 game.

They choose to cater to 'everyone', and in the end may be end up making no one happy.

This is why you're not a game developer.

[Asiaine]

This is why you're not a game developer.

Not sure that recognizing there can be many times of games excludes me from that ^^; That being said, this game does not really cater to the 'hard core' crowd (battle mechanics are really really really simple). And now it seems to start to annoy a bit of the 'casual' crowd with the ATMA farming.

It's as if they are a bit confused:
We want the hard core players to work hard to get their Atma.
But we want the battle mechanics to be so simple anyone can do it without thinking.

End result: Mind numbing repetition for 'hard core' players, and annoying repetition for 'casual' players.

If, for example, battle mechanics were very difficult to master and challenging, and merely winning a fight was a daunting but rewarding task then the drop rate could be less annoying with the RNG (the challenge would be in actually winning, not winning 100 times). However, due to very simple battle mechanics there is no challenge (or gating factor) in winning the battle. Therefore it must be the repetition of winning the battle that is the gate.

And therein is a sign of the flawed design (and/or direction). And given the significant number of people who seem to be posting unhappily, it may be a valid point.

[Doo]

I think some players are just playing the wrong genre.


Fate grinding is bad though but grinding in general is what mmos are for the most part.

[KenzieLynch]

Sounds like you don't really like MMO's. Aren't they all pretty much jobs now?

[Capita]

-snip-

You guys have very short memory. When the game came out, "hardcore" people were practically BEGGING for a grind. The smart ones were asking for actual difficult content, and argued that grinding/time played doesn't make you hardcore, but the "hardcore" called them casuals and begged for a grind anyway.

So now we get a mindless grind that takes no skill, and people are complaining?

There's no pleasing everyone. This should solidify that idea. The best course of action is to appeal to multiple demographics because even if you do something a group disapproves of, another group will approve of it. Square's doing a pretty good job at that right now.

[Asiaine]

The best course of action is to appeal to multiple demographics because even if you do something a group disapproves of, another group will approve of it. Square's doing a pretty good job at that right now.

Not always the best course. And of course, in appealing to multiple demographics you are of course excluding certain demographics. And one group of demographics that will get excluded from here are those who do like challenging/hard content.

What I do not understand is, given so much super-easy content already here, why did they add the Atma stuff in? It seems an odd contrast.

[Capita]

Not always the best course. And of course, in appealing to multiple demographics you are of course excluding certain demographics. And one group of demographics that will get excluded from here are those who do like challenging/hard content.

What I do not understand is, given so much super-easy content already here, why did they add the Atma stuff in? It seems an odd contrast.

I don't see any demographic being excluded here. There are equivalent weapons to be found elsewhere if you don't want to do the Atma grind, or want to put it off until after it's made easier.

[Richiealvian]

Not sure that recognizing there can be many times of games excludes me from that ^^; That being said, this game does not really cater to the 'hard core' crowd (battle mechanics are really really really simple). And now it seems to start to annoy a bit of the 'casual' crowd with the ATMA farming.

It's as if they are a bit confused:
We want the hard core players to work hard to get their Atma.
But we want the battle mechanics to be so simple anyone can do it without thinking.

End result: Mind numbing repetition for 'hard core' players, and annoying repetition for 'casual' players.

If, for example, battle mechanics were very difficult to master and challenging, and merely winning a fight was a daunting but rewarding task then the drop rate could be less annoying with the RNG (the challenge would be in actually winning, not winning 100 times). However, due to very simple battle mechanics there is no challenge (or gating factor) in winning the battle. Therefore it must be the repetition of winning the battle that is the gate.

And therein is a sign of the flawed design (and/or direction). And given the significant number of people who seem to be posting unhappily, it may be a valid point.

Out of curiosity, how much time did you spend to beat t6-t8? I wipe a lot, so I don't think it's too easy for me. But if you've spent at least one week of game time (about 8 hours a day) then haven't you got what your money's worth? Most games does not last you that long for 4 bosses, do they? If you're only up to the most high end raiding content, can't you unsub and then come back when the new end game raid is out? I've asked my friend circle, and they all go "wow, this is finely tuned" instead of "man, this is so boring".

[Raenryong]

Stop. How is that not P2W?

I think what she means is not buying top tier stuff, but like i70-i90 stuff. Good entry level equipment which you could easily earn otherwise.

[Asiaine]

Out of curiosity, how much time did you spend to beat t6-t8? I wipe a lot, so I don't think it's too easy for me. But if you've spent at least one week of game time (about 8 hours a day) then haven't you got what your money's worth? Most games does not last you that long for 4 bosses, do they? If you're only up to the most high end raiding content, can't you unsub and then come back when the new end game raid is out? I've asked my friend circle, and they all go "wow, this is finely tuned" instead of "man, this is so boring".

I have not done T6-T8. I keep playing the game.. then sort of giggle at how simple the battle mechanics and equipment optimization is... Then get bored and log off. I'm one of those rare people that is paying for the game but can't be bothered to log in (nor be bothered to try and cancel.. fortunately it doesn't cost much/month). I think I've done maybe 10 hours this year.

I did Garuda -- I noticed it could be 100% done without even looking at the screen.
I did Titan -- I noticed you could dodge all the moves by reading a piece of paper on your screen that tells you what he will do next.
(This is sort of where I lost hope. Coupled with Yoshi saying its supposed to be predictable, my heart sank).

Now I came back to do 2.1/2.2 story... but, it's rather sad... I'm walking around a zone getting attacked, but can't even bother to defend myself. I put down some bombs but don't care about the critters that come out and attack. There's 0 risk, and 0 reason for me to even fight. When they get in my way so I can't see the terrain, I spend a minute to wipe them out.

And I'm a scholar.. I should have been squished walking around like that.

It means the gameplay mechanics have been made so extremely simple and the game made so very simple that it no longer offers any challenge to those who enjoy an in-depth strategic game. Yes, you may say Coil is a totally different thing. But it shouldn't be. Nor should one dungeon be the only place to go for something challenging. Nor will it really be challenging, because the basic premise of the game are battle mechanics that are very simple.

The strategy here is more like checkers, when I would rather play chess.