A primal halted the Empire's advance after Ala Mhigo?

[Anonymoose]

In those quests, they say that the one time they summoned Ramuh, he tempered half of them. All of the tempered sylphs in FFXIV are living in the zone where the Sylphs originally lived in Version 1.0; and there were no tempered sylphs in Version 1.0. Are you entirely sure that this first Ramuh summoning was pre-Calamity, or could they be saying that they've summoned him twice since the Calamity? I haven't found a clear reading of it, either way.

[Enkidoh]

Yeah, I can't find any dialogue or cutscene reference in 1.0 at all to Ramuh where he was mentioned by name either - the only reason we all 'assumed' Ramuh was even the sylph Primal prior to the confirmation in ARR was the sylph 'logo' being a thunderbolt with a flower on top. As you said Moose, it seems the first (and so far only) time Ramuh was summoned was sometime after the Calamity, which resulted in the schism in sylvan society and the formation of Little Solace.

[NoloeTazier]

I've argued all along that it was Ramuh who was summoned. The Paragons taught the Beast tribes how to summon their Primals and how else would they know if the "magic" would work if Ramuh did not appear? The Sylphlands are right along the Ala Mhigan/Gridania border. Just because in 1.0 in the open world there weren't "tempered" Sylphs doesn't mean that he didn't have a following. The purple Sylphs are clearly due to this purple mist that appears in the Sylphlands now and the new Sylphs are born purple. The Calamity just brought these tempered Sylphs to the light as they use the destruction to justify their cause.

[Anonymoose]

The Paragons taught the Beast tribes how to summon their Primals and how else would they know if the "magic" would work if Ramuh did not appear?

I've still no solid evidence either way, but if the Sylphs had first-hand experience from a summoning between 1562 and 1567, why not add that to their warnings (in the 1.0 quests), instead of pointing towards the Amalj'aa and Ixal as their evidence before saying they'd never end up like that? That among the aforementioned is the main source of my doubts, really. No part of that story said, "We'd know! We just tried it!" or "We'll never do that, again." It's still possible - and it fits with the geography, but I haven't heard anything persuasive to either conclusion, so far ><

[NoloeTazier]

There was no evidence to support each Beast tribe having a sect that didn't go along with the Primals either so I don't see why the Sylphs couldn't have just been apprehensive about Ramuh. They had first had experience when the Paragon taught them and they saw how it eventually changed the Amalj'aa, Ixali, and Kobold in terms of hoarding crystals and becoming zealots of their particular Primal. When we do get to the Ramuh storyline I somewhat expect this to be gone over and explained, though even if it wasn't Ramuh that stopped the Garleans I'd have to wonder/question what ultimately made them stop the advancement. I doubt just the Primal standing in the Shroud going /pose did anything to deter them, maybe to show the Sylphs his power Ramuh brought down some of the Garlean Juggernauts? Lightning tends to cause mayhem when electronics are involved maybe magitek and lightning don't mix~ With ARR and no elemental wheel the Garleans have nothing to fear~

[Mattlex]

Shiva has been seen in quite a bit of the artwork - The art book that came with the collectors edition shows her...


If I was to speculate - and this is purely speculation, because I don't know enough about the history to say with any factual information, but with their proximity to Silvertear I would bet the Ishgardians have been keeping secrets behind their gates, maybe its not just beast tribes who summon primals?

It may explain where all that snow came from too

[Kyan]

Shiva has been seen in quite a bit of the artwork - The art book that came with the collectors edition shows her...If I was to speculate - and this is purely speculation, because I don't know enough about the history to say with any factual information, but with their proximity to Silvertear I would bet the Ishgardians have been keeping secrets behind their gates, maybe its not just beast tribes who summon primals?

It may explain where all that snow came from too

This has been a crack theory I've been harbouring in my mind, but reluctant to share considering the Yoshi-P statement, mentioned by others, of an "unseen beastman tribe". Then again, with Y'shtola's "private" conversation with the Admiral at the end of 2.2, I question "what is a beast man, and how are they different to the five races?" A beastmen race could simply be in the eyes of the beholder... I am certain that the Amalj'aa or Kobolds might consider us beasts for what we do to their kin. And consider Yugiri - we can clearly see she fears the prejudice her physical appearance inspires from the other races, yet we do not consider her a beastmen while she is clothed and masked, because she behaves like us. Would it be a different reaction from the Scions if she was unmasked during the story?

For now, I am going to assume that it is possibly the gigas. However, if it were Ishgardians trying to summon Halone... It could explain Shiva's Elezen appearance...

[Melinia]

Then again, with Y'shtola's "private" conversation with the Admiral at the end of 2.2, I question "what is a beast man, and how are they different to the five races?" A beastmen race could simply be in the eyes of the beholder... I am certain that the Amalj'aa or Kobolds might consider us beasts for what we do to their kin.

And then there are the goblins and mamool'ja, both of which have cooperated freely with the three city-states in the past (and in fact, that's the reason why the mamool'ja are in the region - they came because employment was offered). The mamool'ja are mercenaries who appear to be willing to work for anyone, while the goblins don't understand why anyone would need a special word for "black market".

[Jandor]

I thought the Primals couldn't be summoned until after the battle over Silvertear lake?

[Kyan]

I thought the Primals couldn't be summoned until after the battle over Silvertear lake?

Hmm. I do not think that is completely true. They were summoned in Othard before the battle in Silvertear lake.

My theory would be that the Allagan collected/captured certain primals' essences, and sealed those away, but unlike all good pokémon trainers, didn't "catch 'em all".