Kinda sketchy upgrades for crafters..

[Kenji1134]

All in all, we just need better gear...

Ive got 392 craftsmanship, 372 control, and 348 CP on my Cul, with every piece of gear having 4/5 melds, and the new head and weapon.
Given the current amount of control available, and the fact that you must use a specific set of actions to actually complete the progress portion, namely 2 Piece By Piece and 3 CS2... or 3 PbP and 2 CS2, but that costs an extra 15 CP... you only really have room for 5 quality actions... or 8 80% Hasty Touches if you want to pray to the RNG gods.

The issue is that even with all HQ materials, you NEED... NEED 6 successful quality actions + GS-BB to get to 100%. If you have 5 actions, you'll really only get ~2072-2100 quality, which will put you at ~90-91% of the bar... so maybe an 80% HQ chance.

With 6 actions, be it 6 BT's or 6 HT's, BB will be buffed enough to bring your total to a little over 2500, which should get you to 100% if you start with HQ's.

ATM you can do a rotation, with bis CP food and pretty much max CP melds, that has 8 HT's, which mathematically has a 79.1% chance of having 6+ succeed.

OR, I have found a rotation that manages to sneak in 6 BT's... but requires a monstrous, and currently unattainable 400 CP... Or 382 CP IF you want to deal with an 80% HT...

Aside from those 2... I mean, we could always craft like in the good old days, with no rotations or macros... and PRAY that we get a Good or Excellent condition at a suitable time to throw down the BB hammer... And pray again that it lands.

[Gesser]

Challenge doesn't match reward here.

SE change your attitude about Crafters already.

[Kenji1134]

Figure it cant hurt, so I'll just post my rotations here. Maybe someone can come up with something better.
Keep in mind that these rotations are designed for the 80 Dur, 445 Progress, 4980 Quality 3 stars, and assume you will start with mostly HQ materials.

1. 400 CP, 0 RNG.
CZ-IQ-SH2-WN2-PbPx2-BTx2-SH2-BTx4-SH-GS-Ing2-BB-CS2x3
*Currently unattainable amount of CP* Q.Q

2. 382 CP, 1 RNG.
CZ-IQ-SH2-WN2-PbPx2-(HT)-BT-SH2-BTx4-SH-GS-Ing2-BB-CS2x3
Your best bet is to do this rotation by hand. If you get a Good condition after CZ or IQ, then you can replace the HT with a BT.
If you dont get a Good on the first 2 steps, and HT fails, then you can just use Reclaim and spam HT to fail the synth and hopefully get your items back. Without 6 IQ stacks, you will only get about 2k quality, and have maybe an 80% HQ chance.

3. Variations...
400 CP 1 RNG.
CZ*-IQ*-SH2-WN2-PbPx2-(HT)-BT-SH2-BTx3-BT*-SH*-GS*-Inno-Ing2-BB-CS2x3

382 CP 2 RNG.
CZ*-IQ*-SH2-WN2-PbPx2-(HT)-(HT)-SH2-BTx3-BT*-SH*-GS*-Inno-Ing2-BB-CS2x3

Yes, it looks like a mess. Here goes.
The *'s indicate places where you can use ToT without messing up the rotation. Every time you get a ToT, you can replace a (HT) with a BT.
Similarly, you can add or remove the Innovation after GS if you get a ToT, depending on the rotation you are using.

So all in all, since we currently cannot get 400 CP, our best bet is Rotation 2, 382 w/ 1 RNG with dynamic adjustments as needed.
The point of no return is roughly when we get to Great Strides. At this time, all touches have been completed. If you have 6 touches (7 IQ buff), then continue, if not, Reclaim and spam HT to fail. If you have 6, and have 74+ CP, then you can use Innovation after Great Strides, which will give you an extra ~334 quality on BB.

~~~~~~

So for fun, lets do a general "simulation", starting with as many HQ components as possible.
CZ* - ToT if a Good appears after this step.
IQ* - ToT if Good.
SH2
WN2
PbPx2
(HT) - 1 ToT = BT [Note]
BT
SH2
BTx3
BT* - ToT if Good.
SH* - ToT (One not both)
GS* - ToT (One not both) [Note 2]
(Inno) - If you have 74 or more CP after using Great Strides, use Inno, if not, continue on to Ing2.
Ing2
BB
CS2x3

[Note] So if we got a Good on one of our 2 chances so far, do BT. If not, still do HT and hope it succeeds. If it does not succeed, you WILL get no more than ~2379 quality from the remainder of the process. This is the best time to Reclaim and retry.
[Note 2] The timing of this phase is not terribly flexible. You can fit 1... ONE! ToT after using SH. If you somehow hit ToT after both SH and GS, and then use Inno, then SH will not be up for BB... Remember, you only need 1 ToT between the replaced HT and Inno.

[ImDingDing]

blablabla

HQ penta melded gears ARE iL95 quality and they could be on even vs iL100 gears when the tier V materias are out.
Just compare those penta melded HQ iL70 (with 5 tier IV materias) vs CT iL80 you will see.

[Kyana]

HQ penta melded gears ARE iL95 quality and they could be on even vs iL100 gears when the tier V materias are out.
Just compare those penta melded HQ iL70 (with 5 tier IV materias) vs CT iL80 you will see.

No matter how you look at it, you'll never be able to reach the same primary stats of an item 5-10 ilvls higher.
You can meld a NQ to get HQ base stats but you can't get any higher than that. Tier V materia won't change the caps either.
Unless the secondary stats suddenly became much more powerfull, you won't be able to make up for the lower primary stats.


That aside, I agree with Gesser.
The effort required for the new recipes doesn't match the result/reward.

NQ should have primary stats like ilvl90.
HQ should have primary stats like ilvl100 or at least ilvl95.


If SE is concerned about crafters flooding the servers and people buying stuff instead of doing the dungeons/raids why don't they just make a set of ilvl100 crafted items which bind on pickup?
I, for my part, am not after making gil by selling lots of stuff. I want to make the gear for myself and provide lower level FC members with gear as needed.

Whatever they do, crafting should play a more important role than providing buff food for endgame.

[Simaril]

Do you know how much it costs to perfectly meld gear? With fails alone, people have spent up tp 700,000 gil.

I was using patricians until 2.2, so now I've made the wvr specific set. I spent over 700k just melding the 5 wvr pieces (I already had the jewelery, etc). I agree with the sentiment expressed elsewhere in the thread, that this isn't "difficult" it's just expensive and time consuming. Furthermore, the benefits are somewhat underwhelming - really the biggest benefit comes to those who get there first and can profit... (rich getting richer?)

[scarebearz]

I like the new crafts and requirements.

It should take some effort to make the best crafted items.

[Simaril]

2. 382 CP, 1 RNG.
CZ-IQ-SH2-WN2-PbPx2-(HT)-BT-SH2-BTx4-SH-GS-Ing2-BB-CS2x3
Your best bet is to do this rotation by hand. If you get a Good condition after CZ or IQ, then you can replace the HT with a BT.
If you dont get a Good on the first 2 steps, and HT fails, then you can just use Reclaim and spam HT to fail the synth and hopefully get your items back. Without 6 IQ stacks, you will only get about 2k quality, and have maybe an 80% HQ chance.

So all in all, since we currently cannot get 400 CP, our best bet is Rotation 2, 382 w/ 1 RNG with dynamic adjustments as needed.
The point of no return is roughly when we get to Great Strides. At this time, all touches have been completed. If you have 6 touches (7 IQ buff), then continue, if not, Reclaim and spam HT to fail. If you have 6, and have 74+ CP, then you can use Innovation after Great Strides, which will give you an extra ~334 quality on BB.

This is amazing work - great job! I love the * for places to use ToT!

However, if I understand correctly, recalaim is also NOT 100%, so I would say that's a very big second RNG risk. Looking at the prices of materials and products, I think I'd rather take the risk of getting NQ and losing some profit?

[Kenji1134]

No, Reclaim is 90%.
Thing is, an NQ is roughly I85-87 in terms of stats... Why spend more tomes on an I87 when you can just buy an I90 for less?

For most practical purposes, an NQ, unless its food or a component, is kinda worthless. So Reclaim is there to give you a 9/10 shot at doing it again. And hope your luck is better.

[Simaril]

I personally would never wear NQ (except to make materia), but I would rather craft NQ than risk failure to craft anything at all (and lose the expensive materials).


Materials for ilv 90 wvr crafted item was easily 200k. If reclaim fails, I lose 200k (sure it's 90% succes rate, but if I'm only in that situation once and I fail that 90% doesn't mean crap). If I just make the NQ, I should be able to at least break even.


NQ was selling for 500k, and HQ was selling for 1M. If reclaim fails I lose 200k in materials and 300k in profit (500K) i would have gotten if I just made the NQ. If reclaim works and I spent 200k on matrials, to make HQ 800k profit. I'm not willing to risk 500k in losses to earn 800k in profits. I am willing to spend 200k in materials with 100% chance of NQ (and some chance at HQ), when I'm reasonably confident NQ will earn at least 200k... and if I'm lucky I'll get HQ, or be able to sell NQ at a nice profit, or just try again. I'm even more comfortable with the market board risk if it's a slot where my best gear is ilv 80