Compilation: Capped Dungeons, pro and contra arguments

[MeowyWowie]

Here's two more counterarguments.

- With capped content, you'd be forced to store low level equipment for each job you intend to enter the dungeon with. Given the limited storage space we have, that's a definite no-go; and the scaling algorithms currently in place do not fully scale you high level gear to be exactly equal to low-level gear worn at the appropriate level. Counterargument: None so far

The game seems to have already been designed with level caps in mind. The vast majority of gear already scales down in level as do all abilities. So even if you enter as a scaled down Lv50 with high rank gear, your additional high level abilities will help balance you compared to someone of correct level with gear appropriate to their level. You will never need to hold on to "capped gear-sets."

- People would have to re-do all their macros. Which is not just a hassle, but impossible for players with several jobs at max level, because there simply is no macro space left to accomodate all the gearswaps, ability settings and different battle-macros. Counter argument: None so far

As stated above, most gear and ALL abilities can be used at any level. There's no reason to ever edit macros. A Lv50 can enter with their exact skill-set and gear-set as they normally use and play their class exactly as they would outside of a level-capped instance, just scaled down.

Both arguments seem very similar.

[Reika]

Level Caps for FFXIV wouldn't be at all as bad as level caps for XI, since you can use equipment above your level with stats scaled down.

[Rinsui]

Added until this point.
Actually there was little to add, because Renta and TheVedis just argued opinions. Guys, this is not about how FFXIV is in comparison to other games out there; unless all (or the clear majority of) other games with/without feature X failed, saying feature X is objectively bad is... subjective.

I believe one such point of divergent opinions is whether LV 25 content should remain "challenging" for high level players or not. Honestly, I can see no logical, definite argument for why it should be either way if you only look at the challenge. I do see the balancing issue (good loot for little effort), though.

[TheVedis]

Added until this point.
Actually there was little to add, because Renta and TheVedis just argued opinions. Guys, this is not about how FFXIV is in comparison to other games out there; unless all (or the clear majority of) other games with/without feature X failed, saying feature X is objectively bad is... subjective.

the main problem with saying other games dont matter is that is actualy what half the pro arguement is

they want it to be like 11, cuz they liked 11

so other games do come into this discussion due to that alone

[Rinsui]

Well, Vedis, FFXI did something different than most other MMOs, and in this context it serves as an example that a feature can work. The only problem I see is when the pro-faction claims that because feature X was in 11, it has to be in 14, too (which, up to this point, I think they didn't).

Just because there's no PvP doesn't mean that there's no game balance. We're still all competing with each other even in a PvE-only environment. We still compete to have the best items, and be the best players. If there's no skill requirement to backup our underlying accomplishments, then those accomplishments are rendered meaningless.

Hmm. I *think* the contra-faction claims that low-level gear and dungeons are (and should be) meaningless for a high level player anyway. Instead, for high level players (and, in extension, their low-level friends) the whole game challenge should focus on end-game, with mid-level content just being a transitory (and, with enough outside help: skippable) phase on the way to the top. So while some people want the whole game to be challenging, with no way to "cheat" your way to victory, others insist that the only real challenge should be endgame anyway.

Krausus, did I understand this right?

Btw:

BS, plain and simple lol competing with rank 25 content.... really?!

In principle, something similar war attempted in FFXI with capped Balistas. So it's not completely ridiculous. A bad example, though, because Balistas died out pretty fast. A better example would be, perhaps, Vampiric Claws, obtainable only from a capped CoP area in FFXI. At least on my server, they were considered *pretty* cool, just because everybody knew about the hassle to obtain them. But that's only one example which doesn't really prove anything.

[TheVedis]

Well, Vedis, FFXI did something different than most other MMOs, and in this context it serves as an example that a feature can work. The only problem I see is when the pro-faction would claim that because feature X was in 11, it has to be in 14, too. Which, up to this point, they didn't.

no, 11 is still another game

this is not final fantasy 11
this is not wow
this is not aion
this is not(insert game here)

either all games are included in comparison, or all games are excluded


also, several of your pro people have stated they had it in 11 therefore it should be here, where do you think half their comparisons are coming from? about the glory days of cop, they want it to be JUST LIKE 11.

[Reika]

Well, Vedis, FFXI did something different than most other MMOs, and in this context it serves as an example that a feature can work. The only problem I see is when the pro-faction would claim that because feature X was in 11, it has to be in 14, too. Which, up to this point, they didn't.

They haven't yet anyways.... But there have been plenty of other such comments in other areas of the forums.

Being capped here would be different than the caps that were in FFXI. simply because you can still use the equipment you always use even if your rank scales down. If it were level required equipment instead of optimal level equipment, it would be a different story. and then caps would be something I wouldn't want because I like many others don't have the inventory space to carry around a bunch of low level equipment.

[Rentahamster]

also, several of your pro people have stated they had it in 11 therefore it should be here

In Final Fantasy 11, you can be every possible job on the same character.

In Final Fantasy 14, you can be every possible job on the same character.

That is one of the main reasons why they capped certain content in FF11, and therefore, it is one of the main reasons why we need to cap content in FF14 as well. I'd say the FF11 comparisons are very valid in this particular case.

[TheVedis]

In Final Fantasy 11, you can be every possible job on the same character.

In Final Fantasy 14, you can be every possible job on the same character.

That is one of the main reasons why they capped certain content in FF11, and therefore, it is one of the main reasons why we need to cap content in FF14 as well. I'd say the FF11 comparisons are very valid in this particular case.

and so is comparing it to other games

as i said, 11 is not 14, therefore, you can not state that it has to be an exception

every other game can be compared too as they are all different MMOs then 14

[Rentahamster]

and so is comparing it to other games

as i said, 11 is not 14, therefore, you can not state that it has to be an exception

every other game can be compared too as they are all different MMOs then 14

In WoW, you cannot be every single class on the same character. Neither can you do that in Rift, Guild Wars, Diablo, AoC, or pretty much anything else.

For this particular issue, FF14 shares most in common with FF11, therefore we need to examine why certain measures (like a level cap) were necessary in FF11 and then apply it to this game if it makes sense.